B2B PPC Advertising: How to Overcome Challenges and Generate Higher-Quality Leads

Episode Description

B2B #PPCAdvertising comes with some unique challenges: longer sales cycles, low lead volume, and wrong audience targeting, just to name a few.

These are not unique challenges; almost every advertiser faces them.

So we brought in two B2B advertising experts — Andrea Cruz and Brandon Coward — who helped several B2B companies overcome these challenges and build high-quality leads.

Join Andrea and Brandon in this episode to learn:

• How to trust automated bidding with a low lead volume
• How to use enhanced conversions and value rules to generate higher-quality leads
• How to manage client expectations
• Messaging tips in RSAs
  and more.

Episode Takeaways

Trust in Automated Bidding with Low Lead Volume:

• Starting campaigns with enhanced CPC (eCPC) allows for better control over bids while gathering data.
• As conversion data accumulates, consider switching to more automated bidding strategies like maximize clicks to increase data points and optimize bid strategies further.
• Continuous monitoring and adjustments based on lead quality and conversion rates are essential to refine bidding strategies in B2B contexts.

Utilizing Enhanced Conversions and Value Rules:

• Enhanced conversions facilitate better tracking of user actions by linking CRM data directly with Google Ads, improving the accuracy of conversion reporting.
• Value rules can be applied to prioritize leads from specific locations or user segments, directing the automated systems to allocate more resources to higher-value conversions.
• This integration helps in teaching Google Ads’ machine learning algorithms to identify and prioritize higher quality leads.

Managing Client Expectations in B2B PPC:

• Early and transparent communication with clients about the realistic timelines and expected progression of PPC campaigns is crucial.
• Educating clients on the complexity of B2B sales cycles and the importance of nurturing leads over time helps in setting realistic expectations.
• Advising clients on the value of various conversion actions beyond immediate sales, such as downloads, sign-ups, and other engagements, is important.

Messaging Tips for Responsive Search Ads (RSAs):

• Pinning specific headlines and descriptions in RSAs can help maintain control over the message, ensuring critical information is always displayed.
• Creating RSAs with variations—some with more flexibility and others with more control—can optimize ad performance and lead quality.
• Testing different RSA setups and closely monitoring their performance is recommended to identify the most effective messaging strategy for B2B audiences.

Episode Transcript

Frederick Vallaeys: Episode of PPC Town Hall. My name is Fred Vallaeys. I’m your host. I’m also the co founder and CEO of Optmyzr. So a few weeks ago, we did an episode with Google about value based bidding. It is a new technique, a new strategy for getting more results in PPC marketing. And it’s a, it’s a technique that we’ve discussed kind of in the context of different things.

We talk about e commerce all the time, but this time we wanted to shift focus a little bit and talk more about B2B. A lot of advertisers out there, probably the majority of the world is actually interested in getting leads because getting that sale is not an instantaneous thing. It can actually take a really long time to get that sale.

So when we talk about B2B PPC advertising, it comes with its whole set of challenges. And that’s why we brought together two of the world’s best experts on that topic. Two great people who are going to have great tips and advice. So can’t wait to hear what they say about doing better in B2B PPC. Welcome to another episode of PPC Town Hall.

All right, and I’d like to bring in my guests right now. Say hello to Brandon and Andrea.

Andrea Cruz: Hello, everyone.

Frederick Vallaeys: Hey, Andrea. Nice to have you back on the show. So it’s not your first time here, but You may be a different Andrea than the one we talked to last time, right? Tell us a little bit about what’s going on.

Andrea Cruz: Yeah, well, I recently chipped roles and jobs. I am no longer with co marketing, which is a place I deeply love, but now I am a director of client strategy at Tenuity. So looking forward to new challenges and new ways to help B2B marketers out there.

Frederick Vallaeys: Welcome to the show.

Brandon Coward: Hey, thanks for having me. You know, first time been doing PPC for, you know, I don’t know, 10, 15 years.

I’m not gonna put an exact date on it and age myself there. But most recently, director of paid media here at Powered by Search. So for the last five years, really head down right into B2B SaaS specifically. So, yeah. Dividing and trying to conquer all the challenges of, you know, platform updates and conversion bidding.

Number one has actually been probably our biggest focus point. So excited to dig into some, some B2B PPC.

Frederick Vallaeys: Yeah, it’s great to have you on the show as a first timer. Andre has been to a number of SMXs, you blog a lot, you’re quite influential. Brandon, have you spoken at conferences?

Brandon Coward: Some smaller conferences, not quite as big as SMX, unfortunately.

Yeah, I need to get a little bit more onto the content game, but you can some of my stuff periodically on our blog and then on LinkedIn right now.

Frederick Vallaeys: Exactly. I think it’s awesome to have you here because we did see some of the stuff that you have done and it’s really good. So I think you deserve a bigger platform.

So, you know, let’s make this a stepping stone towards that, but really can’t wait to hear what all of you have to say. But let’s sort of start the conversation maybe from that angle that I was talking about before, which is we talked so much about e commerce on PPC Townhall and in different PPC techniques.

But B2B like where you don’t get that sale, like within minutes of the person landing on the page comes with its own set of challenges, right? So do you want to talk a little bit about like B2B at a super high level, Brandon?

Brandon Coward: Yeah, for sure. And I think that that’s pretty much the biggest challenge, you know, with, with e commerce and D2C, you can kind of see instant ROI numbers within the ad platform, so that makes things a lot easier in terms of how you want to manage what campaigns are giving you ROI right away.

Great. And with B2B, obviously sales cycles can vary so drastically from if it’s product led, especially on the sales led side of things, which is, you know, when you’re looking at a demo, what happens beyond the conversion. So that’s probably the biggest challenge when it comes to B2B, you know, Fundamentally, the platforms stay the same, the campaign types, you know, what makes a good ad versus a bad ad, things like that.

But when it comes to conversions and tracking what actually drives value for your business, that’s really where the biggest, I guess, challenge comes in. So setting up the right conversions based on sales cycle and knowing what to kind of train and create campaigns to optimize for it is generally the number one or most critical thing to do to have success in B2B PPC.

Frederick Vallaeys: Okay. Setting up conversions, right. Talk much more about that soon Andrea, from your perspective, like what’s the biggest like you’ve been doing B2B for so long. Like what, what’s the passion there, right? Like what makes it so exciting for you? And what’s.

Andrea Cruz: Well, you know what, going back to what Brandon said is it takes so long.

I have clients that their sales cycle expands to two years and then the lead you get today, you don’t know what’s going to happen to him until two years into the future. I wish I could be a genie and, you know, do some magic and tell you, yeah, really, that’s going to come in. It’s going to be wonderful.

Right. So. Explaining that to a customer or a client can be very challenging. And they want, everybody wants, what do you want when you ask a client? What is your goal? And the goal is always, I want demos and I want them today. I don’t want white papers and I don’t want newsletter signups because I don’t care.

I only want business emails. Free email domains are forbidden because my sales team won’t even look at them. So right. It’s a lot of education too, throughout the process. One and number two, understanding that there are different steps the user have to take in order to move through such a long journey.

And really, I think a very, my own experience, what makes B2B advertising very successful is when you have a clear understanding of all those steps, what your sales team is doing with any lead that’s coming in. And then how to track that across the funnel. So I know we’re going to talk about all those things there, but I don’t want to get ahead of myself.

Frederick Vallaeys: Yeah, exactly. So much to talk about. But one thing that you brought up that I hadn’t really thought about before was client expectations. So, I mean, you do have these clients that come in and it is going to take two years, like you said, to, to get a conversion for them. Like, how do you set that expectation?

How do you work with them for two years without them giving up? And like, what’s the process there? Well, you know, when you get a new client, I don’t know if Brandon will agree with this, but when I get a new client on my side, I tell them, look, There are things that are already happening that you are doing that we can leverage, and those will have a quicker impact.

Andrea Cruz: There’s always the low hanging fruit, but now there are things that we are going to be talking about. Awareness. middle of the funnel consideration and those will take a while. Not everybody is going to be ready from the get go. And I think when you own more a client and very before you own more than you have to have a discussion with them about what their expectations are and make sure that they are aligned with what can happen.

I am a big believer that agencies say yes a lot and that we should say no more often and tell them the why. And create a realistic expectation what should happen. I don’t know, Brandon, your thoughts on that?

Brandon Coward: I think you’re reading my mind there. That’s that’s basically the exact same experience we’ve had on my side as well.

So generally it’s just having that upfront conversation with that client So, you know We get some accounts that come in that are in pretty good shape that just need some kind of retooling refixing from a higher level strategy perspective and then you get some that are, you know, PPC didn’t work for them, whether it’s a specific channel or, you know, they’ve tried Google ads and hit a hit a ceiling in terms of search volume, things like that.

So it’s really like setting those expectations with them in terms of what they can expect and that it’s going to be rocky, right? You’re going to, you’re going to get some increase in demos. They might not be the right fit to begin with. Or they might be infrequent to begin with. And as you kind of train and get better with the system and your strategy gets better, you can start to get a little bit more predictable with it.

And then I guess the second one is, is a key point that you kind of just addressed is really what are the client’s expectations from the program? And that’s, One thing that we try and do right up front is really get on the same page about expectations and how to phase those out. And then forecasting obviously can be a super helpful tool, but it really just depends on where you’re at from a historical data perspective and what you can comfortably say in a forecast, right?

But yeah, it’s, it’s difficult to say or to not say yes in an agency role in terms of, Hey, we can fix that. Yeah, we can get the results there, but getting in front of it and really having an honest conversation with the clients has been the kind of the most important part for us and managing expectations.

Frederick Vallaeys: Yeah, that makes sense. And so then in terms of a client who comes in and says, listen, we’ve done PPC before, and maybe it didn’t work and they’re frustrated but. Luckily, they’ve come to you to have that conversation. It’s usually due to some challenges that they previously didn’t address correctly, probably.

And so one of the first challenges that I can think about is. Low lead volume, right? So I mean, again, if we’re thinking about e commerce and selling potentially thousands of items in a day, and here we’ve got someone selling Caterpillar heavy duty equipment, you know, you’re not going to sell a thousand a day.

Right. So, so how do you deal with that low lead volume that you sometimes see in B2B?

Brandon Coward: Yeah, it’s a, it’s a good point there. I think, you know, when we’re looking at the low volume, it’s really about especially like demo campaigns and like really like expensive, you know, you’re talking about really expensive products and things like that.

They’re going to have fewer conversions for, especially compared to e commerce. For us, it’s really about, you know, what’s the campaign objective. So not every first touch campaign is going to be focused on demo, right? Not everyone wants to buy your product or, or jump on a sales call right away. As soon as they, this is the first time they’ve heard of your, your company.

Right. So it’s about either. Looking at real time conversions. So if it is those like resource downloads or webinars, signups, different ways to generate leads and more demand for your product is kind of the best course of action. The second one is obviously setting up more micro conversions and looking at What are the events that lead up to an actual demo or purchase that you want to focus on and start to train the platforms for as well?

Frederick Vallaeys: Yeah, and I think most people listening know about micro conversions, but for those who don’t, can you quickly like go over what those are?

Brandon Coward: Yeah, so micro conversions are the events that lead up. To those bigger conversions. So in this example, I think demos are probably the most common case for B to B in this sense.

So instead of just only focusing on optimizing for demos, you can optimize towards any lead capture, which is really what I was talking about in terms of resources or lead magnets, webinars, things like that, where you’re exchanging just basic contact info. And then if you, you have low volume there and it’s not enough to train the system, you can even go to real micro conversions, which would be just events and page engagements.

You know, smart goals for 1 example, but you know, you track key events on your site that really show that there’s more intent and engagement from a, from a user or prospect before they’re ready to take action.

Frederick Vallaeys: Yeah, and I’m curious, like, how do you go about defining what those micro conversions are?

So you mentioned smart goals, but is this a process? Andrea touched on this, but like, do you use analytics to sort of go through the pipeline and draw correlations? Or does the client usually sort of know what these micro

Andrea Cruz: conversions are? I’m laughing because first thing I do with my account, so I, I have this whole list of things that you need to get done, but on week one of onboarding, one of the first things I looked at is currently what it’s being tracked.

Cause I need to know, right? Before I spend a bunch of time setting things up, I need to know what are they currently tracking? Usually the answer is not everything. So I start with big forms. It’s more

Frederick Vallaeys: than nothing, which is a good beginning, right? A lot of people,

Andrea Cruz: you know, I’ve, I’ve seen a lot. But usually the answer is they’re not tracking everything they could. So I go from macro to micro that’s how I do it because I want to make sure that at least the big guys, if I get a demo, if I get an event, sign up. That it’s in person, that it’s with a time, that tells you there’s a high intent behind that. And then I go down, or I guess in this case, up the funnel and then look How many, how much people are scrolling through my blog post?

Are they downloading white papers? Are they signing up to my newsletter? Are they clicking, logging at the top of the screen? Because I don’t want to retarget those people unless I want to upsell them. So go from the very macro conversions which is OK. The really bottom of the funnel and then I go off and then I go.

I have fun. I’ll tell you the truth after I’m done with the funnel. I have fun. I just start looking at things like do I have a heat? Mapping tool to make sure they are which CTAs are clicking when they are coming from? Which source I give up big? I think that there’s this platform called Microsoft clarity that people.

No more phone or they have Microsoft

Frederick Vallaeys: one.

Andrea Cruz: It’s the mic. Oh, there you go. I’m teaching. This is can I? Well, we’re recording this. I’m gonna put this into my personal LinkedIn. I thought red valleys platform that he might not know. So let me tell you about it. So Microsoft Clarity. It’s Microsoft Free Hip Mapping tool.

You can connect it using Google Tag Manager or you can install it on your HTML. And it’s, it does recordings, it does hip mappings. It shows you rage, clicks that clicks. You can segment by UTMs and one of the things that always bother me about heat mapping tools is you have to go in and say, I want to track this page clarity does it on all the pages on your side.

You don’t have to do it. It’s just there. It’s doing it for you and you can just filter by traffic location device. I mean, and have fun with that highly recommend

Frederick Vallaeys: Microsoft Clarity. Check it out. And then, hey, thank you for teaching me. Like, I don’t know everything. It’s just, I know more than the average person because I get to talk to smart people like you on that and ask you the questions that I care about.

But for everyone watching right now, very long time, Fred. Yeah. Hey, but for everyone watching. During the premiere, we’re actually here to answer questions. If you have any questions, please put them in on the chat on YouTube or on LinkedIn. We’ll see them and we’ll try to respond to it. All right, good.

So yeah, that’s right. I also kind of wanted to go into a little bit of a technology thing. So you mentioned Microsoft Clarity. The other thing when You’re looking at people’s behavior and scrolling and downloading certain white papers. Do you have a favorite technology for tracking those behaviors?

I mean, is that mostly GTM and, and to what degree do you have to be good at GTM, Google Tag Manager to be a good B2B marketer? Or is that something you can outsource to someone else?

Brandon Coward: Yeah, I think it kind of gets into a bigger conversation too. You know, more and more of the automation coming in, I think.

That really does make marketers, especially in the PPC space have to become a little bit more technical or a little bit stronger in terms of act like the copywriting side of things. So I do think tag manager and especially with GA4 coming in, everything is event based, everything is hit based. So tag manager has been a focus you know, for our team and anyone that I speak to for a long time, because you don’t need to, to work with a developer to get everything done.

You can get them to kind of fact check you. So. Tag manager is super important because you can go in and add all of the basically the default settings and listeners for clicks, for forms, for scroll depth and just like you mentioned, you know, we can add, you know, clarity and heat mapping like hot jar and all that fun stuff right through tag manager.

So I would totally recommend if you’re not using tag manager, go in and get the basics and set up the listeners. And they’ll port those over into analytics, whether it’s UA or GA for, and that gives you the full like behavior and hit report for all of the events that users are taking up until they take your actual conversion, like a demo.

So you’ll see, are they scrolling through pages? Are they going to your blog? Are they clicking on the pricing page before they go to book a demo? That’s where you’re going to learn and do your best learning. So tag managers, probably my favorite tool in that sense.

Andrea Cruz: Adding to what Brandon just said, if you’ve never used Stack Manager, this is what I tell you, employees, meanwhile, you don’t hit the blue button on the top that says publish, there’s nothing you can break.

Have fun with it, test new things, see if they’re working, make sure that you are seeing yourself in real time in Google Analytics if you’re trying to set up something there. But meanwhile, you don’t hit that blue button that says publish. It’s, it’s, it’s a free space for you to learn and test new things and make sure that you can track things.

That’s my two cents on that. Exactly, but be careful when you hit that blue button because it’s a wire. No, it’s also like, I mean, for us, an Optmyzr, just like GDPR compliance and all the codes to how you have to set up to accept the cookies and do proper validation of all of that. Yeah. GTM is a great tool to help with that, but right, but, but, but so kind of the point is you can use GTM to fix your marketing and if you break it, it’s not just to the extent of, hey, we’re no longer collecting data and analytics because we made a mistake, but there are some pretty big repercussions if you accidentally remove some GDPR compliance, for example.

Frederick Vallaeys: Yes. GTM is a great tool. Hey, let’s let’s have topics here. So one of the reasons we want high conversion volume is usually because we, the more volume we have, the easier it is to do bidding. Nowadays, bidding is mostly automated. And I’m curious, both of you what kind of bidding do you use before you have the lead volume, the conversion volume?

And what do you like using for bidding after you get enough volume?

Brandon Coward: Yeah, so it’s a good question. And I think it’s starting to change a little bit. This is obviously a little bit of recency bias, but for our sake, everything that we start off with, especially with low conversion volume or new accounts, anything like that we generally start with easy PCs to begin with, because we have a higher level of control over those bids.

Maybe that’s just the inner control freaking me that wants to know exactly what we’re bidding and have the ability to kind of increase bids on really high intent bids, You know, keywords that have the purchase attempt behind them. So I, I typically start with eCPCs, but one thing we have seen now, especially in B2B, if you’re focusing on something that’s like lower volume or it’s a brand new start we have started experimenting and seeing some better results actually with maximize clicks just to get the sample size higher and be able to get more data.

It does scare me a little bit because there is no conversion focus on it. So I’m a little worried about what’s happening with You know, a traffic you know, the traffic audience versus someone more likely to convert. But that’s where we

Frederick Vallaeys: need quality you’re going to get from those clicks, right?

Because I’ve always held the firm belief that clicks are cheap for a reason. It’s because other people don’t want to bid on them because they’re not the best quality clicks. And that’s often a disconnect too, right? So. I mean, so many businesses are focused on just give me lots of leads for that budget that I gave to you.

You really got to get them to care about, you know, it’s fine to pay two times as much for a lead. If that lead is four times as likely to convert, right. That’s ultimately what moves the business. So that’s interesting. So you start with eCPC nowadays, more and more maximized clicks.

Brandon Coward: It’s, it’s just been very recent that we saw a few campaigns with eCPCs that started to like stall out before they really got to the volume.

So that’s really more of recency bias. I would a hundred percent recommend start with ECPCs and then you can test from there where you need to go.

Frederick Vallaeys: Hey Brent. Sorry. Are you Canadian? I am. Okay. I just picked up on that. I love Canadians. I love hockey. I don’t know if you like hockey. Hey, Andrea, sorry, complete side track.

Andrea what about you and bid management? I think you were also a friend of ECPC in the beginning, right?

Andrea Cruz: Yeah, I start with enhanced CPC because I want to learn and this is because I’ve been doing pay for a very long time. I want to learn if I can beat the algorithm because it makes me feel better.

Lately it’s not, it doesn’t happen that often as it used to happen before. But I start with enhanced CPC, leave it running for two, three weeks and then start playing around. I use target impression share for Brandon. Or I use maximize conversion for Brandon campaigns. It’s my traffic. Why wouldn’t I want?

And it’s also so cheap. And then for anything that it’s non branded, depending on where they are in the funnel. For demos, I actually like maximized conversions. For anything that it’s white papers, middle of the funnel, nurturing. I like maximized conversion better. Just because the volume is there. Even if I don’t go for the clicks, I’m still gonna get them.

And I, a lot of people complain about, oh, but maximized conversions can be so expensive if you don’t put the handrails on it. And I’m like, who cares if a lead cost me 300. If I’m selling, like you said, the Caterpillar example, and it cost me, I have no idea how much that costs. I’m going to go with 50, 000.

So I’m fine paying that. That’s a good, it’s a good point with the maximized conversions, by the way, like the CPCs you see can range so drastically, but it’s one thing that. You know, I’m always telling my team or clients about is don’t fixate on the CPCs as much as you used to, or the CPAs, because at the end of the day, the demo is worth more than, you know, obviously within range, you know, when you see a 90 CPC that can, that can throw things for, for, for a loop anyway, exactly.

Frederick Vallaeys: I mean, it’s like. Do you care about profit in your business? Oh, you do. Okay. So wait, why do you mind this as a high CPC? If it actually gave you a profitable sale, right? And it’s that disconnect, right? That sometimes comes into play. Now actually in the comments, folks watching the video why don’t you put in what’s the most expensive item you’ve ever tried to sell through B2B?

So when it comes to those caterpillars, Adrea’s putting that 50, 000. I think that might be a little cheap.

Andrea Cruz: I have no idea.

Frederick Vallaeys: I know, they come in various sizes, right? Yeah, I’m wondering, like, has anyone sold those big trucks that run in the mines in Chile? I think they’re over a million dollars a piece.

So, put in the comments what’s the most expensive thing you’ve ever tried to sell in PPC, I’m curious. Hey, but Andrea, you also brought up the funnel, so let’s go there for a bit, right?

Andrea Cruz: We’ve

Frederick Vallaeys: talked about that. There’s not many conversions, but then you were addressing while you have to think about people at different stages of the funnel.

So how do you think about that? Well, you know what? I think those are, I’m lying. I have three favorite topics in my life. One of them is B2B and the second one has to be funnels. Because when I started on, I started my career in page search. I started in Google Ads, right? And then, I was given the opportunity to Microsoft ads and then I jump into paid social and then I was like, cool, I have these all these ad formats in my head and then I was like, I don’t think everything works for everything, right?

Andrea Cruz: You have different ad formats and different platforms and you have to create buckets of people per platform, per ad format. So I have this massive tracker in my computer. That I have updated with type as my opinion of them have changed with time. So yeah, not every single ad on Google app can lead to a demo.

You have to become you have to be what’s were conscious. Of what people is doing on YouTube versus what they’re doing when they see a shopping ad versus when they see a discovery ad. And what type of promotion or messaging do you want to give to that user? TII can, I, I actually gave a, an SMX conference about the funnel, so I can talk about this for an hour. I’m gonna let Brandon add his thoughts or, or Fred, whatever you want to add to that. But I do think that. You need to have a very clear understanding of what users are doing when they see your ad and depending the form of that ad can lead to a different outcome.

Frederick Vallaeys: So yeah, let’s hear from Brennan, and then we’ll put in the notes how people can find your SMX session.

I think you can still pay to get access to the recording. You speaking on the upcoming SMXs? I’m

Andrea Cruz: doing SMX advance in June. Two or three

Frederick Vallaeys: weeks after you watch this. After we premiere this, I think you’re going to be speaking at SMX advanced. So catch Andrea’s session. I’m doing a session on RSAs. So shameless plugs.

Good reason to pay for the ticket. Okay, Brandon. So what do you think about the funnels? You love funnels as much as Andrea.

Brandon Coward: I’m not sure if it’s quite as much, but it’s close. It’s definitely close. And the, your point was dead on there. Really? It’s just knowing where, what stage is your audience at?

Because there’s, there’s a. Ton of different channels, whether you’re using Google or paid social. And, you know, the common thing, the common misconception there is, Hey, you know, this type of network doesn’t work. Display network doesn’t work for my business or search didn’t work for my business. And most often it’s just because it’s the wrong stage of the funnel.

So the way to think about it from our side of things, the B2B is really, we look at cold traffic at the very top, right? So prospecting in general, someone who’s never heard of your business before. The next layer is those who know what your business is. Those might be people who are, you know, just website visitors.

They’ve seen your content. They’ve seen maybe an ad or your organic posting. Then it’s, you know, the next stage is really, you know, prospects that actually like your business. So they’ve probably, you know, interacted with some content. They’ve gotten a free resource from you. Maybe they looked at a product overview video.

They really, they know what your business is, but they’re not ready to take the next step. And the final one in that funnel is really. Do they trust you? So have they really engaged with that content? Have they looked at the testimonials and case studies and success stories and things like that, meaning they’re ready to take the next step and book a demo?

So we really think about it as cold traffic, you know, the warm traffic, meaning just website visitors, engaged users, and then finally like active MQLs and prospects that we want to take to, you know, get them to raise their hand and book a demo in this case. Right. And so I think a lot of the talk about the funnel here is up to the lead stage with the lead being the desired outcome.

Frederick Vallaeys: But again, like, I mean, we want profits, right? We want sales. We want a convert and you’ve already done some qualification here and expose them to content so they are more likely to actually know what they’re getting into here but do you ever connect offline conversions to look at what happens after you’ve produced a lead and it’s gone on to the sales teams and maybe it’s become invisible to you.

Brandon Coward: Yeah, maybe I can jump in here. So in terms of that funnel strategy, that last stage is is really active prospects. So we actually already know them. In this case, so I usually do like a three prong remarketing strategy across each each platform because users interact with each platform different times of day.

They’re doing different things on their different intent. So really, the first one is more just like the website traffic, which again might not come from third party data or anything like that. The second one is really people who are actually engaging with whether it’s those are events on your site, meaning they’re taking those micro conversions or they’re opening up PDFs.

And then we actually take MQL data. So any active leads and prospects, and we start to feed them into our remarketing campaigns. So if, if you know, you’ve downloaded a white paper on our website, you’re going to start to see all of our remarketing ads for more content. So we just started more and more content.

We try and be as helpful as possible with resources, blog articles, webinars, whatever it may be. And we basically just continue to give value as much as we can to that prospect until they’ve really started to signal that they’re ready. In which case. We start to serve them the demo or a trial ad in this case, when they get to the bottom.

So we do a lot of MQL and SQL piping that data and using, you know, those targeting lists directly from the CRM into, you know, Google or any of the other platforms to start targeting them with that hand raiser ad, which is, Hey, it looks like you’re ready to book a demo. Cause you’re, you’re looking at a buyer guide or an industry report or something like that, that starts to showcase that there’s, there’s buying signal there.

Andrea Cruz: I would like to add to that too. I think a lot of people forget as well. Once you get the lead in that you have to email, you know that they’re going to talk to sales, people forget that that sales process takes a while. I personally like doing some campaigns after they talk to sales, depending on how that sales conversation went, they can easily mark them or add them to a specific list on their CRM.

And then you can remarket to them based on that topic that they talked about, maybe a video, something very informational, but it’s very clear that there’s already a sales intent to it. And then make sure that you exclude that person from all your other marketing campaigns because they are already cookie.

They already talk to sales, make sure that they are excluded for anything that it’s prospecting and nurturing. I, this is not B2B, but I was I got my dog pet insurance and they kept. Telling me via email and ads everywhere. Sign up with us. What are you waiting for? And I’m like, I’m already a client.

I already pay you for months. Can you please take me out of this list? So the same thing happens on B2B people. Just forget. It’s very important.

Brandon Coward: I think that’s probably one of the key points there is, and so the first thing actually we do when we audit any accounts is take a look at whether it’s remarketing or prospecting campaigns and see.

What are the exclusions? And if you’re not either doing the manual upload or pushing those directly from CRM systems to exclude your customers, or, you know, if it’s sales accepted leads or opportunities for that matter, from, from early stage campaigns, then that’s the first thing we do. Cause you’re likely paying for people who might already be your customer.

Andrea Cruz: Fred, you’re me again.

Frederick Vallaeys: Everyone take a shot. We begin. So I wanted to talk about audiences and targeting, right? So we haven’t really touched on keywords yet. At some point, we talked about automated bidding. Both of you are now using them, whether it’s maximized clicks or target impression share or some of those. How does that work together with keywords? Like, do you, do you have a broad match keyword strategy, exact match? And how does that then end up combining with the audiences that we were just talking about?

Andrea Cruz: I don’t know. Yes, I’m gonna say it depends on where they are in the funnel. Because for a demo, I want to be very specific. For example, I have a lot of clients in the cyber security space. And while their names might be very similar, the solutions we give them are very different. So I want to be very specific when I’m doing demos with what I am actually telling them to sign up for. And then in the middle of the funnel, I’m using a lot of phrase match today.

That’s what I’m using. You’re saying when somebody’s booking a demo. Exact match keywords because you want to be very precise with what it is they look for. Yes. I know it goes against what Google likes, but that’s what I am doing. Well, and that’s okay. I think that’s why we’re here, right? Because I mean, honestly, even the fact that you said, okay, I don’t know if it was you, Brandon, but ECPC, like, I think Google pretty much hates ECPC at this point.

Frederick Vallaeys: Huh. But if it works, it works, right? Like, that’s why we’re here to You know, there’s the Google theory, and there’s what we actually see in practice. And if that works better, then let’s keep doing that for a little bit longer.

Brandon Coward: That’s probably the most important part, really, is, you know, we try and, you know, play to Google, what Google wants us to do in that sense, but you really do have to test and learn and see if it’s right for your account or the industry you’re working in, like B2B, for example, not everything is you know, super accurate from the platform recommendations in that case I’m with you, though, like the exact match keywords is definitely where we start Typically we’ll, we’ll do the same thing.

We’ll start with exact match. If you don’t have enough volume there for your demo campaign specifically, then we’ll entertain phrase match. And then when you’re looking at, you know, more prospecting campaigns for resources and things like that, or you’re just trying to expand we’ll use exact and phrase match, but our preference is usually to split them out into separate campaigns.

So we can help control the bidding strategy. And the budget, I guess, for those campaigns, because, you know, phrase matches starting to snowball in terms of what it brings in and the volume. So it’s a great tool for keyword mining, but separating them out is, is a big, big thing for us in terms of being able to control it.

Frederick Vallaeys: So I’m hearing a big theme here, right? Which is multiple campaigns multiple ad groups different stages of the funnel are being targeted with different audiences, but then you have to put negatives to make sure it doesn’t go to the wrong place. Like how do you That’s fun, right? Hey, I cost 400 an hour.

You want to pay me 400 bucks an hour to put a negative keywords for you? I mean, there’s gotta be another way, right? Like, so what, what’s your process look like? Are you using scripts tools? And I know we got some Optmyzr users here on the panel. So that’s not what I’m fishing for, but, but like, how do, how do you keep things in check?

Brandon Coward: I can jump in then. So in terms of, in terms of the keywords and making sure that they’re. I guess aligned with what we’re looking for. So we have a standardized negative keyword list that we use just very like cookie cutter esque that we’ll start with to help minimize those. Generally speaking in the pre planning though, we will make negative keywords, especially like root keywords that we know are probably going to come up.

Cybersecurity is an interesting one because there’s a lot of acronyms that pull in a ton of irrelevant search terms. So we try and go through and figure out. What are any possibilities that we can do to kind of remove those? But the short answer is for net new campaigns It’s a lot of reviewing it whether it’s manual whether it’s scripting and pulling it into reports Or if you have other tools that you’re using so obviously we’ve optimized there as well That really helps kind of expedite that process for us So really it’s really Early on, it’s a lot of like couple times a week you’re going through it, whether it’s manually or using a script to make sure that you’re, you’re sculpting the right traffic in before you spend too much money, right?

Andrea Cruz: I love that. And if you, I think the best PPC managers are the ones that are on their accounts constantly. Yes, we trust automation, but it doesn’t hurt to make sure what’s working, what’s not working. Just because I, an account was set up as it was for. A year, it doesn’t mean that you cannot refresh it based on what you are seeing today.

I, I am not a fan of Xcox for B2B single keyword ad groups. So if you are doing those, I would most likely unify them as well. I know some people have a preference for creating campaigns based on match types. I am not a fan of those because I think at the end, you are honestly just competing against yourself.

That should shrink a little bit of how big your account actually is.

Frederick Vallaeys: So for you, the different campaigns are based around what?

Andrea Cruz: Based about where they are in the funnel, themes, and locations.

Frederick Vallaeys: Okay.

Andrea Cruz: Because I don’t like to put my locations together.

Frederick Vallaeys: And so do you have different messaging then for those locations?

Andrea Cruz: Yeah. Yeah, so I am a big fan of at customizers in B2B. I think people don’t really know about if you have always been in B2B, you probably never heard of them. If you’re in B2C, it’s like you use them all the time.

Frederick Vallaeys: Well, I know what they are. So you’re not going to teach me, but teach everyone else.

Andrea Cruz: So add customizers are a really cool tool that Google has, where you can actually base your On where, for example, where people are in a certain location, you can provide them a different messaging or show them a different product and customize your ad based on it.

It goes beyond the time. What is it called? Time? Time down? Countdown? Countdown. It goes beyond that. You can actually do so much more depending on where they are in the audience, show that different message and so on.

Frederick Vallaeys: And it’s also with the ad customizer, so there’s the countdown, there’s the automatic Location insertion based on where the user is physically located, but it sounds like you’re taking it one step further.

And using the business data to say, like, if you’re in this location, then insert this piece of text.

Andrea Cruz: Yeah, so for example, I have a, I used to have a client in in managed IT services, and they had, one thing that they were very proud of is that they had service representatives in every single state.

So they would add a custom message to every single ad, depending on where the user was searching for. So instead of having 50 campaigns from 50 different states, we had one, but the messaging was very personalized for each one of them.

Frederick Vallaeys: Okay. All right. So shifting topics a little bit. No, actually, let’s stay with the same.

So one, one other problem that you often see in B2B, B2B. Is people looking for jobs, people who are not really B2B, but they’re still using a keyword that could be either how do you deal with that?

Brandon Coward: Yeah, that’s a, a tough one. I think the biggest one is really the, the audiences going through and seeing what are the relevant audiences that you can, that you can use and add and exclude.

So like people who have visited your job page, for example, is one that we typically exclude. Yeah. Jobs and any of those related keywords are actually in our standard negative keyword list as well that we apply to basically all of our accounts until we run a campaign for a client that’s looking to get job applicants.

And then we have to go with that from the list, but mainly it’s the audience. I know you have, like, there’s life events in certain targeting within Google. You can use as well. We try and do that a little bit as like a secondary, but. Primary one is excluding people who have been to your careers page and then making sure that jobs and application is generally added as an exclusion negative keyword across the account.

Andrea Cruz: As well as the market audiences. I don’t recommend negating them like negative 100. Because I’ve seen some clients that they would act or prospects that would actually go through your website, including your career spirit to learn about your culture as an organization. So I don’t like excluding them to 100 percent because then we have this secondary targeting or exclusions that Brandon mentioned, but something to also let’s decrease our beats just in case.

Frederick Vallaeys: Yeah, makes sense. Let’s talk about a new campaign type. So performance max has been a hot discussion topic lately. Is that something you’ve tried in B2B?

Andrea Cruz: I tried them. Got a lot of leads. They were very cheap, but none of them were qualifying. So that’s where I was in that process. You know, only tested it with one client.

That doesn’t mean it doesn’t work. But let’s take those learnings and figure out what to the next.

Brandon Coward: Yeah, I think similar experience on my side. I’ve used it very infrequently. It kind of reminds me a little bit of, you know, smart campaign, smart display campaigns, for example, which were we tested those and great for getting a lot of conversions.

But generally like the lead quality when we looked through the actual you know, this HubSpot list or CRM list, we found like prospects just weren’t the right fit. So it doesn’t give you the control you’re looking for. Selfishly, I hear a lot of people talking about performance max and I’m waiting to kind of hear what are the learnings coming from it so we can apply it.

Generally I love to jump right in and test and learn it myself, but I want to see someone else go through a couple of the kernels and share some learnings before we jump back into it. Okay. Well, we have a performance max episode as a previous PPC town hall. It was relatively e commerce focused. So if anyone else is out there that’s done PMAX well for B2B reach out, maybe we’ll have you on. So one of the things when you end up getting poor lead quality is, is just. You know, if you’re not teaching the machine, what is the right lead quality? It can’t really go and find you the thing that you want, right? And so by its nature, if you say here’s my budget, maximize my quote unquote conversions, if it believes that a lead is a conversion, any lead is a conversion, this is going to get you lots and lots of leads.

Frederick Vallaeys: And again, to my point, the cheapest leads are the worst leads, but you can also get the most of those for the budget. So presumably that might make you happy, but you’re not because that’s not what you really want. So but Google has come out with stuff like. offline conversion imports, offline conversion tracking, recently enhanced conversions for leads, which is a new way where you don’t have to capture the GCLID and put it into your CRM system, but you can just use the email address of the person who filled out the form and track that all the way down to The different stages within the your CRM.

Is that technology that you’ve used and seen any success with? So, sorry, go ahead.

Andrea Cruz: I was going to say, I actually have seen what Google recommends on search that you will see a lift of a 5 percent conversion rate enhanced conversions, etc. It’s fairly easy to set up assuming Google can detect all your information and you don’t have to go to manual with them.

They do have this automatic setup that makes it, makes it fairly easy to do. Yeah, so far I like it I’m, I’m just going to go with that.

Brandon Coward: Yeah, and we’ve had some accounts reviews the same. I’m actually testing it against the direct CRM integration to see what the numbers look like. So the actual raw lead number coming from HubSpot versus what does enhanced conversions for leads look like.

So it’s testing in parallel right now on an account. Or we have two or three that are running it. The last I checked it was about within that 5 percent variance. So I think they were, they were right in that sense. Selfishly, especially a B2B when you’re using the CRM data. And that’s really where all of our clients are pulling up their dashboards and their reports and seeing the value that that’s coming from PPC.

We tend to lean to the, the actual direct integration route and, and piping that data back in. So enhanced conversions, we haven’t seen a huge lift, but it will definitely impact and benefit you for some of those tools that don’t directly integrate nicely because it gives you a little bit easier way of connecting the dots from.

The real CRM data to the platform and giving them a better signal.

Frederick Vallaeys: Yeah. I remember that was one of the points you made early on, right. Is about our biggest challenges reporting, correct leads and conversions to Google. And so these are techniques that help you do it better. Now, obviously you guys are doing the direct integration in many situations, which is fantastic.

But anyone who’s watching who doesn’t have that capability. Definitely check out the enhanced conversions. They’re easier to set up than anything else. And there’s also value rules which is a less precise system, but it’s, it’s super easy to set up. You can basically do things like say, listen, everything else being equal.

If I get a lead from New York versus a lead from California. Like I know I can look in my business data or just my gut instinct is that a California lead turns into a better lifetime value customer. So all else being equal, I’d prefer the California lead. And so you just give the machine a slight directionality by valuing that California lead just a tiny bit higher.

And now the machine knows to get you more of those and fewer of the New York.

Brandon Coward: Yeah, exactly. And we’re doing that with I guess with life cycle stages, you can do the same thing with, you know, if you’re looking at a trial state, for example, and associating even if it’s average values or something that isn’t piped in directly, you can associate a value with, you know, a trial start versus a trial complete or you know, a resource download versus a demo.

And, and you know, how many it takes to get to a closed deal for you. So we typically enter in that information as well to kind of give Google another signal, whether it’s coming directly from the platform or it is, you know, kind of a bootleg kind of work around solution for it. The idea is give the better data to the platform and it will do more work for you.

Frederick Vallaeys: Yeah, let’s hear from you in a second, but just to really be sorry, clear on that. So value rules works with locations, device types or audiences. And then we’ll take a break. You’re referring to is if you have these audiences already built out, then you can put those into the value rule system. So that’s how people can act on that today.

You were going to offer something.

Andrea Cruz: Yeah, I was going to say that one of the things I’m sad about his conversions is that you have to set it up through Google ads. I’m curious to hear what you guys are doing today because I was a big fan of making my life easier and setting everything in Google Analytics.

And importing my goals from Google Analytics to Google Ads and with enhanced conversions, you can do that. So I feel like now I have to go back. And do it all over again. So curious what you guys were doing before. Has this impacted you whatsoever?

Brandon Coward: It’s a really good question. Analytics. I’m totally with you.

Analytics was our preferred method. I think still is obviously GA4 is kind of rocking everything on that side of things too. But that is our, our preferred method, obviously, is to set everything up in analytics and then pass that through. So right now with like the enhanced conversions, we’re actually testing Simultaneously with them as secondary objectives in Google ads.

So not double counting anything, but I’m actually just testing to see what does enhanced conversions look like compared to our normal process, which was importing from, from analytics specifically,

Andrea Cruz: I don’t know. I am just sad because then now, if I want to use enhanced conversions, I have to do it on Google.

And like you mentioned, well, Google Analytics 4. Now we’re setting everything up over there. So a lot of work, people. A lot of work.

Frederick Vallaeys: Never a dull day in the Google world, right? The world is changing things. And speaking of change, very soon after this episode goes live we will lose expanded text ads and we will only have responsive search ads.

Now, both of you said that messaging the right thing based on the lifecycle or the life stage you’re in, the deal stage you’re in, is so important. So RSA is just Google mixing everything together. Like, how do you do that?

Andrea Cruz: I like pinning. I have this rule. Every single headline one will be something that will be very eye catching.

That’s where I say I insert my ad customizers to bring people in. If I have any mention of the keyword that I’m beating on in that ad group, that’s where it goes in. Headline two, if everybody knows my brand, it will be that or a CTA. And headline three has to be something that. It’s okay if it doesn’t show up because I know it doesn’t always shows up and the same thing applies with description to description to will be something that if it’s doesn’t show up in the ad, it’s okay.

The key messaging that I want to push forward. It’s so that’s how I am doing it. What about you? Random? Yeah, very, very similar in that sense. So with RSA specifically, like even testing, you know, expanded text ad versus RSA, you know, if you give Google the flexibility to rotate all of your headlines and all of your descriptions.

Brandon Coward: It’s going to serve that variation more frequently. So the way we’re doing it right now, preparing for, you know, the, the end of ETAs will be we, we actually pin several options for each headline. I’m less finicky with the descriptions, but pinning several options for those headlines. So we still maintain control.

And then we actually do another variation. So a second variation of the RSA in the same ad group. Which has the minimum pinned headlines. So like it’ll be one, if it’s the solution or the keyword that we really want as H1 we’ll actually pin that headline in there. So it’s got the highest kind of resonance with the user search.

And then we’ll let Google rotate headline three, for example, or because those are the value props that we wanted in H3. So we do one kind of restricted one. That’s a little bit closer to, to ETAs. And then we do one that gives Google a little bit more flexibility, but Still holds the message we want, because in B2B, I want the right person.

I want the person who’s going to buy, you know, the, the Caterpillar machine itself, and not someone who’s just looking at pictures of it. So that’s the one trade off, I guess, with B2B ads is the right clicks from the right people.

Frederick Vallaeys: This is turning into a Caterpillar commercial. Hey Caterpillar, if you want to send me one, listen to my B2B ads, I’m going to work on it.

So by the way, Brendan, if I’m hearing correctly, you generally have two RSAs per ad group. Correct. Yeah. Andrea, what do what about you? I usually, if I have one, that’s it. I’ll tell you the truth. One thing I noticed throughout all this time of testing between ETAs and RSAs, one thing I did notice is at the beginning, when I let Google just take control, I was like, okay, here you have 10 headlines and here you have three, four descriptions. I would get more leads in ETAs And my lead quality for RSAs wasn’t great. What I have found by combining the different headlines and pinning them into an structured manner is my RSAs are not outperforming my ETAs, which is exactly where I wanted to be at this point in the year. I do have team members that would do what, what Brandon said back in co marketing.

Andrea Cruz: That they would add multiple to them to give them variation. But meanwhile, I don’t know what the different combinations are going to be. I am not a big fan. So curious to hear, Brandon, what happens after your testing is done and, and which one does better. I do know that Google said that your ad strength will be penalized in some manner, not penalized, but you know, it’s going to be lower.

If you have a fewer I hate ad strength. I absolutely hate it. I put up a video why you should not care about ad strength. It is not a living score. It is just based on whatever people have done has no bearing on what’s actually going to work for you. So please people use it as a guideline. If you don’t know what you’re doing, look at it because then you can learn from the millions who’ve gone before you.

Frederick Vallaeys: If you’re watching this, you probably kind of know what you’re doing. So just write the ad that makes sense. And if Google says it’s going to be bad, ad strength has no impact on ad serving. By the way, quality

Andrea Cruz: score,

Frederick Vallaeys: not quality score, right? So it does not matter. And as soon as your ad starts running, it starts getting history.

The performance may be great. It’s still going to be poor ad strength, right? So there’s a huge disconnect.

Brandon Coward: Yeah, it don’t, don’t pay any attention to it. Cause I even tinkered with it. I know they give you the auto recommendations. If you take the recommended headline, your strength goes up more than if you just wrote out the exact same thing word for word.

Yeah, I usually follow

Andrea Cruz: that one.

Brandon Coward: Maybe it happened to me in a couple isolated incidents, but yeah, I don’t look at the ad score whatsoever. The idea with the pinned and a few non pinned is just to see will it impact your impression, share your reach from it by giving Google more flexibility. And the short answer is they’ve kind of both served equally because at the end of the day, I just want the right leads coming through.

And it doesn’t really matter to me what the click through rate is or how, how often my ads are served as long as I get the right leads coming through.

Andrea Cruz: I am curious, though, and Fred, this might be a question for you. Sorry that I cut you off, but do you think they will ever integrate AdStrength to the quality score?

Because it doesn’t make sense to have two, right? In my mind, it doesn’t, because what’s the part? I have, I do have AdRelevance. Is it less confusing?

Frederick Vallaeys: Yeah, exactly. Because quality score has the AdRelevance component. So it’d be a little bit better if that was actually the thing that showed next to your RSA ad It is majorly confusing right now and I think they’re changing some of the help materials to try to make it less confusing because at one point They even said your ad strength is poor limited eligibility But that limited eligibility was confusing because it’s not actually connected to the ad serving system So the they were just saying that you may have limited eligibility because your ad may suck You I love that.

So it’s like but yeah, I think this is definitely going to evolve. I’m not sure which bit we’re going to take it. By the way one thing that I found out, so A B testing is very easy in ETAs, right? You, you know what’s going to serve, so you just make a second ad that says something different. You can actually do proper A B testing and you can even test pinning versus not pinning.

Without having to run two RSAs, a lot of people probably don’t realize this, but add variations will let you do this. And I made a video about it. So look for how to AB test RSAs. They can, you look at the Google interface and I feel for them, right? I think it’s a massive product, but to know how to test pinning versus not pinning, like you randomly have to end up there.

But it is possible. Yeah, that’s a, it’s a helpful tip. I, I found it was very cumbersome to get to, to find that and do it properly. So in some cases we’ve reverted just to like labeling pin versus non pin. So we could see it actually across all client accounts. So that’s the only reason I guess we did it the harder way.

And I think ultimately you do have to test it for yourself, right? Because we have a study. Pinning is hugely detrimental to the general performance of the ads, mostly from an impressions perspective. Google doesn’t like when you pin, so the impressions go way down. And even if your conversion rate is better, you may still have fewer incremental conversions.

Assuming you were getting conversions at a price you were happy with, getting fewer is a bad thing. Right. But, but at the end of the day, you just got to test it for yourself. Well, we’re coming close to the time we had allocated here, but any final thoughts on B2B, your favorite tip something people got to watch out for and also remind people how to get ahold of you.

And if they liked what they saw, how do they get to work with you?

Brandon Coward: Yeah, I think my my favorite tip and all of this is, you know, the remarketing in the funnel aspect is really the most important for B to B. So making sure you’re giving them the right offer. I wouldn’t walk up to someone in the, you know, on the sidewalk in front of my house and ask them to, you know, to sign up for our services or anything like that if they don’t know who I am.

So I think asking for demos and that high intent offer When they already know who you are and they’ve already, you know, digested some of your content and got to know you and like you as a company and a brand you can have more success getting more demos by building that funnel. So just making sure you’re not asking for something to abruptly or too soon is probably.

My number one kind of tip there for from a b2b side of things

Frederick Vallaeys: date first to get married later. Exactly You don’t have to get married these days

Andrea Cruz: Yeah

I I don’t know what to say after that. Something I hear from people that are smaller B2B advertisers is that they want to do everything, right? They have a 5, 000 budget a month. That’s not a lot as these keywords have become so expensive and competition is out there. So I always tell people you don’t have to do it all.

You don’t have to do YouTube ads and display ads and RLSAs And then search, and then search again, and then exclusions. If you have a very small budget, just focus on the places where you think you can be successful. Most of those cases is, do you actually have different pieces of content for every stage of the funnel?

Do you have something that really talks about what you’re doing, how you’re doing? That could be your top of the funnel piece of content. You have a guide or a white paper that talks about the challenges that industry, that person, that sector is facing. And then in that same piece of content, make sure that you exclude the people you don’t want to, or it would not be a fit and talk about it. And then make sure that you have a lower final conversion that can bring people in. It could be a free trial, downloadable piece of content with a demo, a contact us, whatever that might be. Because if you don’t have that, At least those very free on three stages, you can’t really do anything else because you probably don’t have the content to support those formats.

Go small, it’s okay.

Frederick Vallaeys: A lot of work so either do it yourself or hire great people like Brandon and Andrea. Remind people Brandon, how do people get a hold of you?

Brandon Coward: Yeah, you can get a hold of me primarily on LinkedIn in terms of sharing content and reach out there. Separately, if you follow the Powered by Search blog, you’ll find a lot of my stuff on B2B and PPC there.

Andrea Cruz: And on my case, I am more of a Twitter person. So my Twitter handle is at andreacruz92. Looking forward to seeing you there. And as we mentioned earlier, SMX Advanced this year is free. So looking forward to seeing you as well. It’s free for everybody.

Frederick Vallaeys: I’m finally getting paid the amount it’s worth. No, it’s actually very valuable.

So yeah, no, that’s amazing. If it’s free, everybody should watch it. 100%. Yep, it’s free this year. Alright, well, that’s I can’t follow up with anything better than that. So, hey, this has been amazing. Thank you for sharing all your insights on B2B marketing. Let’s do another episode like this. We’ll take a look at all the questions that came up and try to do another one.

But if you like PPC Townhall, please subscribe. We’re trying to do about two of these a month. So subscribe to the channel. We’re also doing other videos. Get ahold of Brandon and Andrea through the channels that they mentioned. Thanks so much for watching. See you for the next one.