Expert PPC predictions and tips to build a winning strategy for 2023

Episode Description

Performance Max, RSAs…the list goes on. 2022 has been the year of automation in PPC.

Heading into 2023, how will things shape up, and more importantly, how can you prepare for what’s to come?

In the next PPC Town Hall, you’ll hear from Julie Bacchini and Amalia Fowler — two well-known experts to learn what they see happening in 2023 in PPC and how they’re preparing.

You’ll also hear from several other experts: Kasim Aslam, Patrick Gilbert, Navah Hopkins, Jon Kagan, Mike Ryan, Joe Martinez, and Cory Henke as they share their predictions and tips on automation, the ‘keyword’, Performance Max, first-party data, vertical video, and so much more.

Tune into this power-packed episode to learn:

- How to handle market shifts well in 2023

- What we may see next with Performance Max

- Tips for adopting automation in your PPC strategy

- How to make the most of vertical video (YouTube shorts, Reels, TikTok)

and more

Episode Takeaways

Handling Market Shifts in 2023

• Economic Uncertainty: Prepare for potential economic fluctuations by analyzing PPC performance critically, beyond attributing changes to the economy.
• Strategic Adaptations: Stay agile with your PPC strategies, making data-driven decisions to adjust to market conditions effectively.

Insights on Performance Max

• Adoption Challenges: Performance Max may offer benefits like automation and integration across Google’s platforms, but it also poses challenges in transparency and control, particularly in terms of negative keyword management and brand safety.
• Sector Variability: Performance Max’s effectiveness can vary significantly between sectors, especially between e-commerce and lead generation, highlighting the need for tailored approaches.

Adopting Automation in PPC Strategy

• Embracing Change: Automation is becoming increasingly integral to PPC management. Adapting to this trend involves understanding and leveraging new AI-driven tools for content creation and bidding strategies.
• Strategic Oversight: Despite automation’s rise, there’s a critical need for strategic oversight to ensure AI-generated strategies align with business goals and compliance requirements.

Making the Most of Vertical Video

• Platform Choices: Choosing between platforms like YouTube Shorts, TikTok, or Instagram Reels should be based on where your target audience is most active. Each platform offers unique benefits, from Google integration with YouTube to innovative features on TikTok.
• Content Strategy: Develop a clear and engaging content strategy that respects user engagement timings and leverages platform strengths to maximize reach and effectiveness.

Episode Transcript

FREDERICK VALLAEYS: Hello, my name is Fred Vallaeys. I’m your host today for another episode of PPC Town Hall. I’m also one of the co founders and the CEO at Optmyzr. So we’re almost in 2023, and when you work in paid search, it’s never boring. Things are always changing. Add on top of all the changes that Google is making some things that we’re not sure about in the economy.

How is that looking? So we thought we do a roundup with a bunch of PPC experts who sent us videos about what they think is going to happen in PPC in 2023. We also have Julie Friedman Baccini and Amalia Fowler who are our panelists, so they’ll be commenting. And giving their own take on what’s what they think is going to happen.

So this should be a fun episode. Please don’t watch this after 2023, because then you’ll just see how wrong we may have been or how right we would have been if we’re right. We’ll send this out again. If we’re wrong, don’t watch it again, but welcome to another episode of PPC Town Hall.

All right, and here are my guests for today, Amalia Fowler and Julie Friedman Baccini. Amalia, let’s start with you. How’s it going?

AMALIA FOWLER: It’s going really well. Thank you. I’m really excited to be here.

FREDERICK VALLAEYS: Where are you calling us from today?

JULIE BACCHINI: Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada, where there is no snow at the moment, but when there was, it took people like eight to 10 hours to get home.

So that whole myth about Canadians being really good in the snow just does not apply to the West Coast at all.

FREDERICK VALLAEYS: Interesting. Julie how’s it going with you?

JULIE BACCHINI: Things are good. You know, lots of excitement here as we head into the head into the end of the year, little kids, you know, child in the house always makes for exciting time this time of year and wrapping everything up and trying to figure out what the heck to do and plan for, for 2023.

FREDERICK VALLAEYS: Nice. Before we started rolling here with the show, we were talking about having kids in the house and how that means basically parents are always covered in glitter. I feel like I’ve got some glitter on my face that I just cannot get off. My kids hug me and I’m like, no, please don’t keep the glitter off of me.

But it’s great to have both of you on the show today. So Let’s start here with the first topic, and it’s not really directly PPC related, but it’s a bit about the economy, right? So some people see gloom and doom for next year. Some people say this year should have been gloom and doom. 2022 was like 2022, which wasn’t great.

But so what are both of you seeing? And Julie, let’s start with you. What do you think about the economy heading into 2023?

JULIE BACCHINI: I feel like. It could go in a number of different directions. You know, I, we, we’ve talked some about, I’ve lived through multiple cycles of, of recession since I’ve been doing this forever.

There are definitely some signs now in the marketplace that point towards some rough sledding. heading into 2023. But honestly, we’ve had this, these signs have been here kind of heavily for the last quarter to quarter and a half. And the performance hasn’t been fantastic in Q3 and Q4 here in 2022, but it hasn’t been as bad as maybe it seemed like it would be when you were just looking at some of the indicators.

So I don’t know, I’m feeling a little, I’m sure. I think there’s probably going to be some rough, some rough sledding in the macro economic sense, but to what extent? I’m not 100 percent sure.

FREDERICK VALLAEYS: That’s a big unknown, right? Amalia, what’s your take on the economy?

JULIE BACCHINI: Yeah, I work with a lot of smaller businesses, so I think they feel the impact.

probably a little bit faster. I see the signs from them a little bit faster than I do from my clients that spend, you know, 40, 50, 60, 000 a month. And, and there has been a slowdown in a lot of different areas with people putting off big purchases or, you know, delaying, replacing their furnace, for example, or that, or that kind of thing.

We are seeing that But what I, what I caution myself and what I want to caution everyone else against doing is immediately assuming downturns in performance are economically based, like instead of investigating into the stats. and the work that you’re doing and being like, what cause and effect, what could I have impacted here?

I do see this jump to, oh, it’s the economy. And that’s a really easy like hop, skip and leap to make, but I just, we should still be looking at our own work first as a potential cause and effect. I do think it is going to be a little bit bumpy, but honestly we survived 2020. These businesses made it through 2020.

I don’t think they should be too concerned about 2023. Trying to get all the years right in my brain That’s a

FREDERICK VALLAEYS: great point. I mean we work in one of the most measurable industries So, you know if you see things trending the wrong way You can still dial back and make optimizations and kind of get in front of it, right?

You’re not going to be at the end of the quarter. Oh my god We spent that much money like I had no clue. We didn’t get conversions but let’s hear one of our video contributors. We had a lot of people sending in videos We asked a number of experts, so John Kagan is going to tell us about maybe a little bit of a rise in CPCs and then let’s get your take on that.

So let’s see what John had to say.

JON KAGEN: Hello, this is John Kagan with Nine Rooftops, and I’m here to give you my quick perspective on 2023 in Search. Honestly, based off the obscenely high growth that we started seeing for CPCs, In April of this year, I am expecting our Q1 of 2023 to be astronomically high cost search growth levels that we’ve probably never seen before just to get the same amount of traffic we previously had, we’ll probably be spending.

25 percent up to 25 percent more, just to get the same amount. It’s a little bit discouraging, but we have seen just obscene growth in the costs for that one. So when you look at year one or Q1 from a year over year perspective, you’re likely going to see a pretty hefty growth in costs. Well beyond what you typically deal with.

FREDERICK VALLAEYS: Reactions to that increase in costs that he’s predicting.

JULIE BACCHINI: He’s not wrong. That’s my reaction. John, I think John is spot on. I was going through an account yesterday and I think part of the, I don’t want to say problem, but part of the cause I think it’s two, two part. The first is the way close variants have changed in keywords.

And the fact that a lot of smaller businesses or a lot of advertisers don’t understand how to mitigate that. So they’re entering options that they weren’t entering before. That may not be relevant, which is driving up everybody’s costs. And then the second piece to that is just with automated bidding, that’s conversion based.

There’s limited. CPC control. Now you can do portfolio bidding strategies, which helps to mitigate that, but then you end up with less traffic overall. So it’s this big balancing act that I’d say a lot of advertisers don’t know how to manage. And I mean, there was a 41 click for my brand’s own name yesterday in, in an account.

And it’s like, well, they can’t afford that.

FREDERICK VALLAEYS: Right. But you’d be also make a good point that like, Industry analysts for years and years on investor calls. They keep talking about CPCs are going up or CPCs are going down. It’s like, I don’t care. So long as I get conversions within like my CPA target or my ROAS is at the level that I need it to be.

Right. So, and in your case. Fine, 41 click for your brand, maybe that doesn’t make sense, right? That’s why you have automation layering to catch that stuff. But generally speaking, if I have to pay 10 for a click instead of 8 for a click, but my cost per acquisition is still good because Google’s AI is finding me those conversions, then who cares that the CPC is a little bit higher, right?

CPC is not my, my main business metric. Julie, what’s your take on what John was saying there with those CPCs going up?

JULIE BACCHINI: I mean, I think the consensus in the industry is that they’re definitely going up. You know, some, it’s not equal across all across all industries either. I think there are a number of factors at play, but I think everybody has seen the increase in CPCs and it’s been inequitable whether you’re seeing an increase in conversions along with that increase in CPCs, or you’re just seeing the, your cost per click going, going higher.

So I think for. For the industries and the businesses where your costs might be going up, but your conversions are also going up, they’re a lot happier than the ones who just feel like their cost is going up and they’re either getting their flat on conversions or they’re getting fewer conversions though.

That’s, that’s where I think it’s a bit. It’s a bit hairier. Because those, the, the businesses that are in, in those space, those advertisers are not feeling like, like you’re describing Fred, where it’s like, Oh, what costs more, but we’re, but we’re getting more. You know, if you’re in that bucket, you’re feeling great.

If you’re in the other bucket, you’re like, am I going to have to pay? Am I going to have to increase my annual budget for, you know, for Google, let’s say. 25 percent just to keep the same baseline, you know, in, in sales and conversions that I have going here in 2022. And for a lot of businesses, that’s a big deal.

When you tie the economy back into this conversation and you have a higher ticket item that you are now paying more to get a lead from, but then the people are not generating the leads because they’re not spending the money on the higher ticket items. Like it ties kind of both of those points together where.

I am seeing that a lot of my service based industries where people are putting off those big purchases, but cost per clicks are increasing. And so the combination like you said, those are not happy advertisers.

FREDERICK VALLAEYS: Exactly. So you got to look at everything. Right. And John also had something to say about demand.

So let’s hear what he said on that.

JON KAGEN: The demand, however, shouldn’t change. We’ve still remaining, we’ve still seen demand remain rather constant and flat. There’s still that desire for the shop and we really correlate demand when it goes hand in hand with unemployment rates. A higher, the unemployment rate, the lower the demand.

And we have not yet seen that. So fingers crossed that we don’t see an uptick in unemployment levels. We should still expect to see the same level of demand. And then it’s just us having to deal with our costs. Google’s performance max may be an answer to help reduce costs. We have seen initial signs.

That their CPCs may be cheaper, but the entire platform is much of a black box, so it’s really hard to decipher if it’s going to help us out in the long run or not.

FREDERICK VALLAEYS: So that’s his perspective. That makes a lot of sense. There is one other thing that I wanted to bring in here from a different expert. So Mike Ryan, he was talking about a correction in supply chain, right?

So It’s all good and well when we can manage the CPCs and the CPA and the ROAS, but ultimately a lot of the advertisers we work with have had struggles just putting products on the shelves or being able to deliver on time. And so let’s hear what he had to say about 2023,

MIKE RYAN: Regarding like the economic picture, I see that, you know, a possible upside of a downturn is cooling demand.

Which could start to gradually straighten out the supply chain. Whiplash that we’ve had from shortage to surplus and also maybe cool off inflation a little bit.

FREDERICK VALLAEYS: And then there was a final contribution that we’ll take a look at from Qasim Haslam.

KASIM: When a major change or shift happens, wait. Wait for people like me to, to take all the bullets. I should, I should be taking all the arrows for you. I managed 70 million in spend. Like, I, I can actually make those mistakes and absorb them.

Because I can spread those mistakes evenly across multiple clients that, that A, stand to benefit in a way that you might not. And, and B aren’t. It’s not going to be a catastrophic error for them. So unless you’re in that same space, I wouldn’t be, I wouldn’t be too aggressive with trying to capture market share in that way.

I think right now is a time for caution. It’s a time for prudence. It’s time for very intentional moves. Make very intentional moves, measure twice, cut once again, tighten your belt. I’ll be ready for anything. And you know, for those of us that are, that are liquid be ready to buy, you know, maybe that means by traffic.

Maybe that means by your competitor. Maybe that means by the building you’re in. I don’t know.

FREDERICK VALLAEYS: Yeah. So what do you think about his advice about being cautious there?

JULIE BACCHINI: I mean, I, I like it, but I, I naturally tend to cautious anyways. I’m certainly not a 7 million in spend managing ad accounts and, and clients. So I tend to lean to the side of caution with everything as it comes to new, new and automation and the environment that we’re in.

So like, I’m happy to let, let them take all the hits

AMALIA FOWLER: on my behalf.

JULIE BACCHINI: I liked his point about being deliberate. I think that it’s easy to be kind of reactionary when you have things going on that can feel a little bit volatile, whether it’s things that are happening inside of the platform, or it’s things happening outside, you know, in the general economy, it can be.

Tempting to be very reactive and to not really think through maybe what, how you want to adjust your strategy and just kind of have some knee jerk reactions. Sometimes clients can, you know, freak out a little bit if there’s a particular day or week or month that seems to go haywire. I think, so his point about being deliberate, I think that’s a great advice, like anytime, frankly, but it’s really good advice when things are bumpy or unsteady or unsure.

So I think Taking on the role of being, being sort of like the calming force, right? Being the one who’s like, let’s, let’s take a breath and let’s think about, you know, what we want to do to, to Amalia’s point earlier, let’s look at our numbers. Let’s look at our data. What are, you know, what’s in here? What can we work with?

And how do we want to, how do we want to move forward based on the information that we have right now?

FREDERICK VALLAEYS: And so let’s be cautious. Let’s be calm. Let’s be reasonable. Kassim had another point that he made. So let’s hear that for just a second.

KASIM: That I think 2023 is going to be. An economic bloodbath, and I do have some some data points that are, you know, independent of what other people might be drawing against, which is the fact that we’ve managed 70 million dollars in that spend.

And because of that, I can see on a micro level impacts and changes to. Ecosystems that under closer analysis would lend themselves to the idea that there’s going to be something of a downturn or correction. And you might say, well, maybe the correction is already built into the market. And I might say, you’re probably right.

If I was an economist or a good one, I’d be a wealthier person than I am. All of that to say, I think that it would be imprudent to not at least hedge your bets. And so, you know, that’s less of a Google ads recommendation than it is an economic recommendation. But, you know, for a lot of businesses, you already know what that means, depending on the industry that you’re in, you know, you might be careful about hiring or fulfillment or pipeline or whatever, whatever that means for you as far as tightening your belt, tighten your belt.

JULIE BACCHINI: I think communication really comes into play here because so much of us, so many of us are in agency and so many of us work with clients like at a distance as opposed to being on client side. And so. I need to know what my client is planning in so that I can plan accordingly from the advertising side and in turn I should be giving them the data that they need to make decisions about their marketing and I think so many times that link gets so broken or We don’t get, we’re not proactive about that communication, so we don’t tell them what we see, we don’t explain the higher cost per click, we don’t translate what that means for their overall results.

And in turn, they don’t tell us what’s going on in there and with supply chain or with the leads that they’re seeing that are turning into actual business for them. And so I would just say that communication needs to be such a focus for everyone. So often it is the last thing that we think about in our space.

So that’s, that’s really what that made me think of.

FREDERICK VALLAEYS: Yeah. And that’s solid advice for any time of the year. It’s the last thing we focus on maybe because we’re too busy building creatives and doing manual repetitive work, but I think 2023, everybody will agree. It’s the year of automation. Okay, it’s been a year of automation.

Again? What is it,

JULIE BACCHINI: five? Is it the fifth year in a row now? It feels like it.

FREDERICK VALLAEYS: But I think 2023 is legitimately going to be different because the type of things we’ve seen now with AI especially stuff coming out of open AI, the way it’s able to write text for us. I think it’s going to become quite helpful for advertisers.

In Optmyzr, we’ve already integrated some AI based text suggestions. So it’ll basically look at the history of what you’ve used for responsive search ad headline components. And it’ll say, here might be a couple of variations that might be worth testing. So let’s shift to that topic of automation.

And Julie, let’s start with you. What’s your broader take on what automation is going to matter the most in 2023 and how it’s going to change PPC?

JULIE BACCHINI: I mean, I think we’ve crossed past that point of like, oh, automation is coming. Automation is coming, right? Like, we’ve been hearing about it for so many years that we’re, we’re joking about it.

Like, oh, yes, it’s the year of automation again. But I think this, even like here in 2022, certainly and heading into 2023. The pace and the scope at which automation is involved in what’s happening inside of your accounts. I think it’s it’s increased a lot in, in 2022. And I don’t see that slowing down in 2023.

You know, we had PMAX rolling out. We’ve had the, the changes in the way that things are matching. We had the big push for broad match and smart bidding, like none of that’s going away. So we’re going to have all that still in play that we’re trying to figure out how to work with. And then who knows what other pieces, you know, we had the end of expanded text ads.

It’s all the RSAs now. So, I mean, there’s a ton of automation in play. Whether you’re fully utilizing all the automated capabilities. So it’s it’s already a part of everything that we’re, that we’re doing. And I don’t see that slowing. I don’t see that slowing down. It’s not, it’s not going to retreat.

We’re only going to, this train’s going to keep moving forward.

FREDERICK VALLAEYS: Exactly. We’ll talk about PMAX 2, which is sort of like, hey, all this AI, you’re forced to use it and it can drive good results. And then there’s the AI that we can choose to use at this point that we still have control over. And do we use DALI to generate images for us?

Do we use GPT that’s coming? For text generation Amalia, what’s your take on automation

JULIE BACCHINI: that I have to get on board now? I was I laugh at year one me because I was like never ever No automation and like throwing a very newbie temper tantrum about changes in the industry And if only I could see myself today I think primarily my I always look at it from a professorial, like, academic lens because I teach Google Ads to college students in addition to executing it.

So one thing I can agree with totally with what Julie is saying is the pace of change. Like, I will build a slide deck and change it sometimes the next day. Before I teach students because things are changing so quickly. I think that those of us who are attached to our control may have to start to really let that go and just dive in and test or rely on the experts who do have those large spends and who are testing and who are publishing to give us.

a different lens into ways we can use this automation, because at this point, keeping up with the automation is practically a full time job. Like, you could probably have someone assigned to looking into all of these things. For like for 40 hours a week. So I don’t love it. I’m learning to love it.

FREDERICK VALLAEYS: All right, Amalia.

So Patrick Gilbert, he wrote a book, Join or Die. Basically, we have to get you to join so you don’t die. So that I don’t die. I

JULIE BACCHINI: talked to Patrick actually reading that book, Join or Die. Shifted my, my views considerably that and talking to Aaron Levy, I think in like at SMX 2018 was another conversation that shifted how I think about it.

So I try and look at it from a less like an onboard, but cynical lens. Like I put them together now instead of

FREDERICK VALLAEYS: let’s hear what Patrick had to say about automation.

PATRICK GILBERT: I think 2023 is when we’re all going to learn collectively how to work with this technology more productively. We’re going to stop pushing back as much and we’re going to embrace it and learn how to really work effectively as marketers in the past year, a lot of products have been put in the hands of the everyday consumer products like mid journey Dali, and then just over the last weekend, essentially GPT three.

These types of tools have democratized AI by giving access to everybody in the world, where now all these different people, whether it’s marketers or anybody else, are now learning how to work with and optimize and manipulate AI to achieve, whether it’s creating artwork or paragraphs or whatever it might be.

I think now all of us are collectively learning more about how to better work with AI, and it’s going to translate into our marketing campaigns. In this coming year, I expect us to all have a better understanding and better and better respect for the work that we can do alongside A. I. So things whether it’s bidding budget decisions, media placements attribution modeling, creative testing, anything else having to do with our digital advertising campaigns.

I think all of us are going to collectively learn a whole lot more about how to leverage A. I. To drive better performance outcomes.

FREDERICK VALLAEYS: All right, Amalia, are you like revved up after that kind of talk from Patrick?

JULIE BACCHINI: Yes, let’s let’s do it. Let’s get on board. He’s not wrong. There are, I think, ethical implications to the addition of AI in a lot of different ways just from, like, what is a trademark and copyright perspective, if we are using it to write text and create images those images are like the AI is learning from someone else’s work so I think that, and the legislative piece is one that’s going to come forward.

In future years, but as we know, legislation does not always catch up with technology very quickly. So I think that’s something that we still have to consider as we go. But it’s I mean, it’s certainly something that we all have to get on board with even me.

FREDERICK VALLAEYS: And then the other big gap here is the, there’s the chat bot from open AI and you can ask the questions and it gives great answers and they can write blog posts and scripts for you, but it doesn’t know anything that happened in the last 2 years because that wasn’t part of the trading model.

And that’s a huge gap, right? I mean, in our fast moving space, a 2 year gap is, is major, major. And so then I think there’s also the role that I’ve always described of the PPC teacher, right? The machine and it’s AI can only. Do the types of things that seen us do in the past and maybe it can be made more creative to explore new avenues and get feedback on that and do some reinforcement learning but still will have a major role to play as I said, I’m kind of curious from you, like, have you played with any of these tools or talk to people who haven’t?

And what are you seeing there?

JULIE BACCHINI: I haven’t done a lot with the newer, I know like the GPT that the chat that that has been like all, you know, all over everywhere. So everyone’s been having, you know, having a good time with that. And it’s been fun seeing the things that, that it generates. I’d be interested to see what it does, you know, when you’re trying to do it and not just the, like, isn’t this fun?

I asked it this, this silly question, or I asked it to, you know, create something in this style, how, how well it would do. So I think that knowledge gap though is, is huge. So much has happened in the last 2 years, both in our industry and in society at large. So that is a tremendous blind spot as far, you know, as far as I’m concerned.

I think, you know, we, we are going to have to figure out the places where We can have influence and we can differentiate what we’re doing for the brands that we work with versus what the system and the automation wants to do. I mean, that’s really where our industry is, is going. So I think starting to have that be your mindset now, while we still have a fair number of options, we’ll serve you well, heading, heading into 2023 and, and beyond.

And really everyone has to become a strategist. There’s no, there’s like, as this continues to go, I don’t think there’s anybody who’s left it just the tactical tactician role. Like, you have to use the context of your business and the context of the data to then edit and change and address and direct the AI.

It can rewrite it. So I have played with it and I put in like. If you put in a student assignment, for example, it will make it better. So from an academic side, this has huge implications for students writing skills, and you can’t detect it as plagiarism the same way that you used to be when someone stole something online.

So I think it’s going to require a massive shift in a whole bunch of areas. And for us, that focus should be strategic and editing and adjusting what the AI does, instead of Doing so much on the tactical side. I think we’re going to all have to become a little bit more strategic

FREDERICK VALLAEYS: Yeah, and we need layers of protection, right?

So I’m wondering about the factualness and the correctness of, you know, when it takes an academic paper and it’s like, Oh, well, I found this one reference here that says helium is heavier than air. And no, that’s not true. Right. And hopefully it figures it out because there’s more references that say the correct thing, but we’ve all seen how Even a search engine like Google can, can be tricked into showing you know, very specific things about very specific people that are incorrect because you know, the community went and said it was so and then, you know, as advertisers, so what if the system now writes a new attacks that says, Hey half off.

We’re 60 percent off because guess what? That’s going to get a pretty good click through rate and a pretty good conversion rate. Right. But is it actually what your business wants to do? So so we just need humans to make sure that what the machine is doing is within the boundaries of what our business wants now speaking of the demand who was calling bloodbaths and stuff and doom and gloom.

What does he think about automation? So let’s hear from Kassim for a minute.

KASIM: They’re going to be really interesting. I think they’re going to be category kingmakers, and I think that automation is actually going to benefit small businesses and probably inhibit agencies a little bit. You know, I’ll never say the agency days are numbered because that just has never been true.

You know, even with massive shifts in in medium Agencies will always be a necessary evil. And I do believe we’re evil, by the way.

FREDERICK VALLAEYS: All right, so agencies, are your days numbered?

JULIE BACCHINI: No partially because of what you just said. So there’s always going to be mistakes in the AI. There’s always going to be things that need addressing and small businesses, while it does give more options to small businesses, they don’t understand how to address those things the same way.

That agencies do and small businesses by their nature are always going to have people wearing multiple hats. They are always going to have people who can’t focus 100 percent of their time on marketing on Google ads on this kind of thing. So I, I think the agency’s role still exists. I think it shifts.

What it is offering small businesses as someone who exclusively works with small businesses, that’s, that’s how I feel about this. I think I mean, it’s interesting, it’s interesting hearing him say, he thinks this is going to be more beneficial for small businesses versus agencies. I, I don’t know that I agree with that.

I think that small businesses they don’t have the runway a lot of times to let the machine learning or the AI figure stuff out while they’re paying for it. And I think the expectation in paid search certainly is not the, is that that isn’t how it works, right? That you can be, you can be pretty particular about what you’re targeting and how you’re targeting it and all of those things.

And that has become muddied over time, but the AI. takes liberties when it’s, it’s learning and it’s doing different things. And I think the size of the business, their tolerance for that, I think is an important factor that we don’t, we don’t talk about a lot because larger businesses have a much bigger tolerance for that.

A smaller business, they might run, you know, Google ads for three months and the AI and the machine learning might still be learning during that whole period. So it’s all over the place at the end of that three months. It’s not. It’s not unlikely that that small business would be like, You know what?

We’re just not getting any return on this, right? And maybe they would have if they’d stuck with it for another couple of months. But I think I think that there’s going to be a fair number that just kind of bug out after, after that period of time.

FREDERICK VALLAEYS: Well, and I think automation is title of my book, leveling the playing field.

My book is Unlevel the Playing Field. How do you tip it back into your favor? But it is leveling the playing field, right? Because I think as a small business, there was a lot of frustration historically with Google ads and that it was difficult to manage and you’d set it up incorrectly. And you’d have like this crazy broad match keyword.

And then you’d be spending all this money on the wrong thing. Automation is largely preventing that sort of stupidity from happening and bringing you up to that next level. But to your point, Julie, Does the small business know how to correctly measure and attribute that these things are actually growing the business?

Or are they just looking at, you know, bottom line of the business might be going into a recession, right? So things are going to look worse. And could they have been much worse than they are now? If you hadn’t been doing PPC, like if you don’t know how to set up conversion tracking, if you don’t know how to track phone calls that come into your business, if you don’t know how to properly answer the phone and actually solve that lead that That that Google just generated that you’re still going to be unhappy, no matter how much better the system is at showing ads automatically and picking the right keywords and putting in the right audiences.

Right? So it’s it’s this more holistic picture that I think Google has solved one of the problems, but it’s still a long way away from solving that attribution and measurability problem.

JULIE BACCHINI: And I, I, I’ll be honest. I still don’t think they’ve solved the first problem. I talked to small businesses all the time who are confused about Google ads, who don’t know how to set it up, who still end up with those wrong broad match keywords because, you know, they’re a fruit stand and they type in the word banana instead of the word fruit stand and it’s like, well, now the ads are showing on everything related to bananas and that’s not what their intent was.

So theoretically it is easier. But I’m still going in and fixing a lot of problems on that side. And Julie, I know, I know that you probably agree with me on this one. Yeah. I think again, it’s the solutions that Google offers are often more successful and less successful. It’s sort of stratified as far as what’s happening among, you know, among advertisers.

And they like to focus on, you know, the ones that it’s working well for. And like, that’s great. Of course they’re going to do that. Right. Like they’re not going to, it’s not working when they’re talking about it, but. I think it can be frustrating both for, for people who, who work with smaller entities to keep, you know, hearing all the rah, rah, everything’s so awesome and this stuff works so beautifully and, you know, get on board when you’re like, yeah, it’s not working as great for, you know, the people that I’m working with, like we’re struggling sometimes,

FREDERICK VALLAEYS: I’ve got a solution.

Should we just get rid of the keyword in

NAVAH HOPKINS: 2023?

FREDERICK VALLAEYS: Let’s hear what Nava Hopkins had to say on that, on keywords.

NAVAH HOPKINS: The future of the keyword. So here’s the thing. I’ve been thinking that keywords were going to die and just fade into nothingness for the past, maybe three, four years. And they’re still here essentially with close variants, taking more and more and more control audiences being prevalent P max on the rise, which really does not use any keywords at all.

So here’s the thing with keywords. And the key word is keywords are signals just like audiences are signals. And what’s really fascinating is that broad match allows for more signals than phrase and exact. So I really don’t think the idea of semantic search is viable anymore if you’re building a cum structure off of that.

But I do think the idea of giving Google signals, and this is true within PMax campaigns, you can build keyword lists as signals. not a semantic search. So I do think that keywords as ideas and keyword concepts and keyword champions will still exist, but they’re not going to be the main lever that we pull and they haven’t really been for a long time.

What will be the main lever audiences for sure, which is why that first party data question is important that you can have that customer match list, upload, keep it keep that as a core audience, but also being mindful of. We may have to release control a little bit and lean into the automatic signals provided that we use negative keywords.

I don’t ever see negative keywords going away because those are our protectors, those are our guardrails. But keywords as active targets, I do see them fading in significance, particularly for PMAX. If you’re still running traditional search campaigns, obviously you’re still using keywords. And in those cases, please just make sure that you’re accounting for the fact that close variants apply for regular keywords, but not for negative.

So if you’re building count structures. From way back when, when semantic search reigned supreme, you really are going to have to do some cleanup. But if you’ve been building for the way keywords have been behaving right now, honestly, whether you make keywords your guiding light, audiences your guiding light, It’s essentially the same thing at this point.

You’re putting in signals that are going to drive profit. Cheers.

FREDERICK VALLAEYS: So did Nava just solve all of our problems with people picking bad keywords?

JULIE BACCHINI: No, but I don’t think she’s incorrect at, in what she’s saying. It, I’m such a keyword person that it, it frustrates me. I do think they are going to go away though.

I will disagree with Nava on that point. I think Google’s taking their time because they just know what an uproar it will cause. So they’re like slowly taking away one thing at a time so that we’re by the end, we’re just exhausted and no one fights anymore. I, I do, I do see what Nava’s saying there in terms of it being more of a signal like audiences.

I. And we are seeing more keyword lists campaigns. Like I just launched a Google’s thing to do campaign. It’s a beta with a tourism clients. There’s no keywords. It’s just a feed. That is that they’re using to generate search ads. And so I do think that we’re trending in that direction. Do I like it?

No. Do I think tying it back to the small business conversation? Do I think small businesses know to layer audiences on to give additional signals? Do I think that they know how to give the like. How does Signal Google, what the actual intent is? No. And do I think that’s going to become a bigger problem for them?

Yes. But I don’t think Nava is wrong in her prediction here. I just don’t like it.

FREDERICK VALLAEYS: Julie, do you like it?

JULIE BACCHINI: I hate it. I’m sitting here thinking, and again, I don’t disagree with what she’s saying. Nava is very smart. But I’m sitting here thinking, you know, she’s talking about it and I’m thinking, you know, what Signal I want to send to Google?

The exact query that matches to what it is I’m trying to sell to somebody. Like that’s the signal as a PPC manager and as an advertiser and as a business is the most important signal. It’s the strongest intent signal you can possibly have. So for as long as I’m able, I am going to keep sending that signal to Google and hope that they, you know, continue to take it into consideration.

I mean, Obviously we’re all going to adapt to whatever we have to adapt to, right? Like we don’t really have a choice. We complain about it on Twitter, which is good, you know, healthy, get it out. But then at the end of the day, we got to figure out how to maneuver. Like, how do we make this work? How do we make this work for the brands that we’re working with?

And I think it’s wise to think about keywords deemphasized. But from a, just strictly from a. Data input standpoint, that makes me crazy because I think there is no stronger signal that a search engine could take than an actual keyword, especially if you’re an established account and you know what drives conversions and you know, it doesn’t.

So

FREDERICK VALLAEYS: a hundred percent agree with. The sentiment I think that signal, so, so I’ll, I’ll, I’ll argue that there’s actually a different signal besides that exact keyword that you care about. It’s just about better reporting conversions. Because at the end of the day, I mean, there could be this crazy search someone does, and it’s like, Oh my God, that triggered something in their brain.

And now they bought that thing that you were selling, right? If the AI gets good enough to figure that out, then it’s about communicating. What was that sale? How much value did I get from it? So how much money could the system have spent on it on, on my bid? And I think that’s still the thing that too many business, and I think you’ll both agree with this.

We see too many companies who set this up incorrectly, or they go only halfway. They’re like, well, somebody filled out a form. That’s my lead. That’s my conversion, right? Sure. That’s your lead, but that’s not your sale. That’s not what you’re actually trying to achieve. And so if we can help our advertisers do that better, then the AI is going to get better information about, okay, all of these crazy broad match keywords that I tested, what actually paid off and what should I do more of?

JULIE BACCHINI: I think that that’s why e commerce clients have, have a lot more success with these automation innovations than lead gen clients do, because that signal is so much stronger because that signal has a dollar amount attached to it. You know, that that actually caused a purchase. Whereas on my side, which is a lot of lead gen, we get a lot of competitor keywords that get prioritized because people just see the ad, they call the business, the calls, the only conversion they have.

And so until. I can get offline conversion data uploaded into Google ads or make a connection to something like service Titan for my HVAC clients. That that data is still at the base level, incorrect for Google to then make decisions off of. So I think that’s why we see, especially with like performance max e commerce clients.

are doing a lot better. Whereas in lead gen, those signals are still very weak. And so I think that’s an excellent point about closing the loop, but many advertisers don’t understand how to close that loop.

FREDERICK VALLAEYS: I think custom, I was on a PPC town hall episode. He was like, this is the trillion dollar opportunity is how to correctly report it.

By the way, Optmyzr has some cool things coming out in 2023 that are going to make that much easier. And because I completely agree, like an e commerce is a reason people have better data is because it’s, it’s so much more tightly integrated. So it’s, it’s basically. Click and install and it works but it doesn’t work for a lifetime value, right?

That’s where you have to start doing more work. Whereas I think on the lead gen side to even get to the base level of correctness. It’s a lot of work. And so we’re going to try to make that easier. I know Google is going to try to make that easier because I don’t think it’s a trillion dollar problem, but it is big enough that it’s, it’s probably one of the biggest opportunities in PPC.

For the next couple of years. But let’s shift and talk a bit about PMAX. So and it’s going to shift back a little bit to e commerce, but Mike Ryan was talking a little bit about enhancements coming to merchant center and how that might relate to PMAX. So let’s hear from Mike

MIKE RYAN: regarding PMAX becoming a little bit more mature on the market.

I think we’ll see three camps. These are like hackers, the people who want to keep trying to find novel ways of using PMAX, maybe in ways it wasn’t intended. We’ll see harmonizers who are going to focus on what is the role of PMAX in an account? Like how do all the different campaign types really play together in the best way?

And we’re going to see more people start walking away.

FREDERICK VALLAEYS: Oh, walking away from PMAX. I wish we could.

JULIE BACCHINI: Does it count as walking away if I haven’t used it yet? Does that count as walking in?

FREDERICK VALLAEYS: Yeah, you never showed up to the party, huh?

JULIE BACCHINI: No, I did in one, in one account. I couldn’t let myself never use it, but I, I, I did it in an account that has a lot of runway.

So that has the testing budget that I was like, let me drop three grand on this campaign that I’m 90 percent convinced is not going to work for you. And they said, yes. But my clients that had less of a budget, I never, never walked into it.

FREDERICK VALLAEYS: Yeah. I mean, so I don’t know if you walked away then or just didn’t explore it further.

But honestly, that’s kind of what we’re hearing too. For some people it works great. Other people, it doesn’t work well. There’s no rhyme or reason to when it does, when it doesn’t. And I think like we’ve discussed quite a bit here, it’s really about feeding it, the system better signals and then trying to do the most you can with those signals, but you really got to stay on top of what is it doing.

There’s still the lack of transparency in it, right? So I think for a lot of the advertisers that say they see great results, are they, are they truly incremental results? Is it truly from one of the sub channels that they cared about? Oh, no. Right. It’s, it’s difficult to get that level of insight. Is it

JULIE BACCHINI: brand?

I mean, the fact that the brand stuff is, is by default rolled into performance max, and then it’s like, check us out. Our numbers are amazing. And you’re like, yeah, but you’ve got, got a bunch of brands in there. Like, let’s, let’s be real for a second. So I think, you know, there’s a lot of that going on.

There’s a lot of that going on too. And like, so we’re very dialed in right in the PPC community where everybody’s talking about that. And how do you get the brand stuff dropped out of there? Cause that’s skewing the performance numbers and all that. But if you, if you step back to the where you’re talking about advertisers using performance max.

Who maybe don’t have somebody professional managing it, who even knows that that’s an issue. They might be looking at those numbers, having no clue that they’ve got a ton of brand stuff happening in there and thinking like, this is amazing, right? But they don’t, the, the, the calibration, the perspective that they need to have for it.

Isn’t, isn’t there. So I find. I find that whole thing fascinating. I mean, it’s obviously Google can put out great numbers, you know, cause brand is like the strongest performing campaign for most businesses. So why not roll that in there and make all your average stuff, you know, puff it out and make it, make it look better.

I feel like I need to redeem myself. So I believe in performance max as a concept. I’m just going to say that straight up. Like I have, I do not, it’s not part of the like, I can’t handle automation. I’m never going to explore it. I believe in it as a concept. However, I think it works better for e commerce again, because they can isolate the networks.

And my two main issues are the lack of transparency and the lack of ability to control things like negative keywords. And then the second one is brand safety. I have brands who get emails when they’re in someone’s Gmail account, or when they’re on a display in a display placement, that doesn’t make sense for their brand.

They get screenshots. And so just. If you have a brand like in legal or in financial where you have to be careful, but where your ads are like, it’s just a non starter in those situations. So until they offer us more control from a negative placements from maybe a network, that’s very hopeful. It’s probably not going to happen.

And definitely from a negative keyword perspective. My like, while in theory, it’s a great idea and I have nothing against it in that regards. There has to be more control for me to roll it out for most of my clients. That’s just the way it is.

FREDERICK VALLAEYS: So one of the things I think there with PMAX that we haven’t talked about much as maybe audiences, right?

And so how do you use first party data as one of the few controls that you maybe still have? So let’s hear from Nava about collecting some first party data to use in PPC.

NAVAH HOPKINS: One of the really interesting things about collecting first party data is Is it’s essentially a consensual conversation. If you create an experience that people are excited to engage with and they want to share their information with you because they know that you’re going to respect it and you’re going to give them something useful in return.

It’s a no brainer. So essentially think about user behavior when you’re asking for cookie consent, make it an easy to read, easy to understand be very clear about what it is that you’re tracking and on the subject of emails and phone numbers Offers are really helpful. Gamification is really, really helpful.

But the most important thing is that you’re not annoying the user in collecting that information. So as a general rule of thumb the technical timeframe is five to eight seconds before you ask for anything or do any pop ups that’s for cumulative layout shift or CLS. However I would actually encourage you to wait maybe 20, even 30 seconds.

And the reason for that is that the, the human mind needs time to process and take things in. You also don’t want to get in the way of an engaged session. You might have a perfect user, but if you annoy them and put things right up in front, they aren’t able to really engage.

FREDERICK VALLAEYS: So Amalia, let’s start with you.

What’s your take on the cookie going away? And what should advertisers be doing in 2023 to get more of that first party data?

JULIE BACCHINI: Yeah, absolutely. This is a big topic of conversation with me and my students as well. So my first take is that the cookie was supposed to be dead this year, right? Like it was supposed to be, wasn’t it January of 2022?

So my first take is, Is the cookie really going and where is it going? But my second take is we kind of have to prepare for both avenues. So we have to prepare for it to leave. And while it’s still here, we can keep leveraging it. And to prepare for it to go, it is about collecting all that first party data and engaging in conversation with your, with your users.

I’m a big fan of the exit pop up. Actually, I love Nava’s point about, you might have a perfectly engaged user and you’re going to interrupt their process. I think We all get really tired of pop ups. I personally, if, if I go to a site and there’s like a pop up for a newsletter pop up for this and I’m out, like, I don’t want to, I don’t want to be there anymore.

So collecting that data, but then don’t ignore them once you have it. That is the biggest mistake I see brands make is they have this customer list and then they don’t engage with them. They don’t send an email once a month. They don’t. Use it to they don’t utilize it in the ad platforms. And that experience has to be something that adds value to your list’s life.

It cannot just be, Oh, like the interns here, let’s have them write an email. Sorry, poor interns. They’re off. They’re wonderful. Usually they’re just new. But it’s like, you can’t just put your first idea on paper and you have to actually start that conversation. So if you’re not prepared to start that conversation, then maybe reconsider Like put a little time gap before you start collecting that data.

Because if you’re not going to use it, it’s it’s almost a useless thing. And I would also argue actually that the average consumer doesn’t know what they’re consenting to when they click that button. And that’s from teaching it. So I teach first party and third party cookies. I teach about how we gather information and what that means.

And every single one of my students mind, like you can see their mind get blown by the fact that like, this is how data is used. And so based on that, I’m extrapolating to the general population. So I think that was point of being really clear. In what you’re gathering and what you’re going to use it for is something that’s so important to earn trust with that consumer.

Otherwise you’re going to run into issues later on down the line because they’re going to get that email and unsubscribe and disengage from the conversation.

FREDERICK VALLAEYS: Makes sense. Julie, what are you doing?

JULIE BACCHINI: All right, so I’ve been talking about this for a while now, as far as having your 1st party data and and how you use it and what type of consent you actually have from the people who are on your list and in your database.

We’re being encouraged by all the platforms to upload customer data, upload customer data, upload customer data. I am encouraging all businesses and those of us who work on their behalf to look really hard at what your privacy policy says and what your terms say. If you’re going to upload people’s information into an ad platform, you should say that somewhere that they can reasonably feel Find because I do not think it is a reasonable expectation that if I purchase something from you, or if I sign up for your email list, that you’re going to take my personal information and you’re going to upload it into an ad platform.

And. I think in the, I’m always thinking ahead. I’m thinking of like, what could go wrong? Like, how could you get into hot water? And this could turn into a very expensive problem potentially down the line with privacy regulations and that type of thing. So utilizing first party data as an advertiser has a ton of advantages, obviously, and the platforms really want us to do it.

And so we need to be thinking in that way. But we want to protect ourselves as well and make sure that we’re doing it in a way that is not going to come back around and bite us or bite the advertisers that we’re working with down the line because we’re collecting this data and we’re doing it ostensibly for one purpose.

And then we’re just turning around and using it however the heck we want. And the people who consented for the one thing did not consent for anything else. So that’s what I have been shouting from the mountaintops this whole last year during this huge push for for first party data, because I think it’s so incredibly important.

And I will also say on behalf of Canadians like me everywhere please. I always learn the regulations in places that are not the United States of America because they are often more strict, and I cannot tell you the number of times a US based business has actually violated our Canadian legislation with my data, and I just know this because I know the different legislations.

I advise all my clients whether or not they have people coming from the EU to follow GDPR because it is by far the most stringent regulation, so chances are by following that. You are covering your bases elsewhere. But if you notice when you upload that data into the platform, it, it tells you like the Google button.

It’s like, you’ve, you’ve collected this properly, right? Like they’re putting all the onus back on the advertiser with that little checkbox. And so this is not like the, I read the terms and conditions, check the box without thinking it through moment. Like you’ve got to be clear about how you bought that data, what people consented to and what it’s going to be used for.

FREDERICK VALLAEYS: Yeah, solid advice. I mean, obviously don’t get into legal trouble, but again, that said, first party data is going to become much more important in 2023. So have a plan. And I sort of like Amelia, what you were saying too, which was know what you want to do with that data, right? Because that’s going to help convince people within the company that yes, we should put time and effort into collecting it and also doing the legal things necessary to then Do what we say, or say what we do, and be protected.

JULIE BACCHINI: And communicate, because chances are the people using that data in other ways, like on email marketing, are not within the agency. So then it’s like, if that comes back to that communication piece from earlier.

FREDERICK VALLAEYS: All right, so let’s shift here to a quick topic about video. So TikTok is this massive growing beast.

But there’s also YouTube Shorts kind of making a play for those same advertisers. So let’s hear from Joe Martinez about these two platforms.

JOE MARTINEZ: My prediction in 2023 is going to be related to vertical video. A question we get a lot from clients who are interested in doing more vertical video is, well, which one should I choose Joe TikTok or YouTube shorts?

Well, the ideal answer would be both, but I can only choose one. And for many of my clients who have mid to smaller budgets, I would say YouTube shorts is the better route. And here’s my prediction of why YouTube shorts is going to be a silent killer in 2023. First YouTube shorts provides you with YouTube analytics.

And YouTube analytics is a great tool to get really good insights on which videos are engaging the most and which ones are leading to additional actions like subscribers and conversions. We can get better information to create better content. Second, YouTube Shorts is a great way to boost your subscriber count.

And when we see subscriber counts grow, that really helps our overall organic YouTube efforts, as well as anything else that we are doing on the channel. As we get more organic growth, then we start to see an impact. Other video things like the audiences that we can create for advertising. So you can see if you grow your YouTube shorts, you can really help your overall video channels.

And another thing that I’ve been hearing rumbling in the weeds is that YouTube shorts is going to expand the timeline. Currently they’re locked at one minute. And if they increase the link closer to the three minutes, like we can do on tick tock, we can really see how we can add more watch time. And now that ads are starting to become on shorts, you can get more revenue coming from YouTube shorts, and it might be a bigger way for YouTube to compete with tick tock.

FREDERICK VALLAEYS: All right. Great. Insight there from Joe. We also want to hear from Corey Hank. So let’s play that next and then we’ll talk more between us.

CORY HENKE: Next. I really want to provide you with the fact that vertical video provides the best opportunity for reach exposure and conversion across three platforms. So it is the best way that I think you should go about things today when it comes to video.

And so for shorts, this is something where we know the least about. But the promise and the power of Google ads really makes it a must test this year. And we have it active for the majority of our clients today. TikTok is I think the platform that has innovated the most in 2022. And I think that continues.

It’s allowed other platforms like Facebook and Instagram to take note, develop their own product and also allow some new targeting capabilities that weren’t there prior. So I think TikTok on the innovation path is is got the longest runway. And then reels, like I mentioned, their connection to shopping for e commerce, I think is a huge advantage, but also reels, I think for other advertisers outside of that, from a reach and engagement standpoint.

So definitely can create that awareness that I think some brands are looking for and ultimately vertical. Is what I would say for 2023. And if you consider anything, it’s testing across all these different platforms and then comparing and seeing where you might find a success. And if you’d rather run something long form, I still think that YouTube skivable is a true advantage for anybody looking for somebody to spend a longer period of time.

My name is Corey Hankey. Thank you again for your time and have a wonderful day.

FREDERICK VALLAEYS: All right. So that’s Joe and Corey. So any thoughts on TikTok versus YouTube shorts?

JULIE BACCHINI: I thought Joe’s points about how the data gets into Google, you know, on like the Google platform when you’re, you’re doing the shorts.

That’s a great point, especially if you’re doing a bunch of other things inside of, inside of Google. And I saw something, I think it was this week about the, the increase in the amount of, of time or the amount of reels that, that have been watched. So it’s definitely, it’s definitely on the rise. I know TikTok has obviously been taking up a lot of the oxygen.

When it comes to, you know, the shorter videos and there’s certainly success to be, to be had there. But I’m really my wheels are turning thinking about what, which I was saying about you know, how it, how it works in and you can leverage different pieces of the rest of the Google ecosystem if you’re, if you’re doing the shorts, I mean, these two are the video marketing experts that I turn to when I have questions about videos.

So both of their points. I mean, I would say what I would go with. But I just want to bring it back for the advertisers to audience. Who are you speaking to? Because that would be my like, If we’re taking away the platform, the differences in abilities, I’m looking at who’s watching. So, who’s on YouTube, who’s on TikTok, who’s on Instagram, they are different groups of people.

And so, my first, like, decision making point would be, who do I want this video to reach? And that would almost dictate my platform before anything else the Google plays nicely with Google piece is a huge benefit for YouTube that obviously TikTok and Instagram don’t have but my primary concern would be who am I speaking to and where are they because if I’m talking to Like a Gen Z, I’m probably on TikTok or YouTube and TikTok.

I’m not on Instagram at this point. And, and that’s very demographically based. Obviously you want to get more into the interests and needs of your audience over demographics, but there are differences in who watches each platform. And that should be on, in my opinion, an advertiser’s primary concern before they decide where to place their media.

FREDERICK VALLAEYS: All right. So let’s each make a final prediction for 2023. My final prediction is going to be Apple finally launches a search engine, and we get another place to put ads, which we always welcome, right? If we’re talking about TikTok versus YouTube, it’s basically about getting more distribution. That’s also about more upper funnel but it would certainly be nice to see a privacy oriented company like Apple coming out with their own search engine DuckDuckGo had a good try.

But honestly, I mean, it’s not significant in the scheme of things for advertisers. I think Apple might have a better shot. So that’s going to be my big prediction for 2023. Closing thoughts. Let’s start with you, Julie, any big predictions and how do people get ahold of you?

JULIE BACCHINI: Your Apple thought is very interesting.

I know everybody’s paying, paying close attention to that. 2023 will be the year. I think the big thing that’s going to happen in 2023 is regulation. I think you know, we, we’ve seen a lot happening. Obviously, you know, the, the European area is, is the, the most advanced as far as regulating what’s, what’s happening with data and what’s happening in, in tech.

I think that that is going to continue. There’s a lot of noise being made here in the U. S. So we’ll see if anything comes, comes from that. But that’s going to be something that I’m going to be paying attention to because I think we’re going to see, we’re going to see some, some regulations that we haven’t had to deal with in the past coming, coming into play.

And then of course we’ll have to deal with the fallout and, and what that means.

FREDERICK VALLAEYS: Seriously, Julie, I mean, here, I’ve got the happy prediction of like, Hey, more places to advertise here. Like regulation. I’m sorry. I’m sorry to be a

JULIE BACCHINI: bummer. You want to know what I think the biggest thing is going to be?

That’s what I think the biggest thing is going to be. I could have said economic bloodbath, but that’s already been covered. So I’m going, I’m going to go with, with regulation. And as far as where you can find me, I am currently very active on Twitter. Hoping that’s. Stays that way. You can find me at Neptune moon.

And if you follow the PPC chat hashtag you can find me, you can find me there. I’m the managing director of PPC chat, and I also have my own PPC consulting business through Neptune moon. I’m very easy to find online.

FREDERICK VALLAEYS: Great. Thank you, Julie. Malia, what about you?

JULIE BACCHINI: My prediction is that I’ll be sad about something in PPC that’s coming out.

No, I’m kidding. My actual prediction, I’m going to jump on the automation train, but I think my prediction is that because automation will continue to kind of level the playing field that we will have to Invest more into understanding our customer behavior and modifying our user experience. So we’re going to have to focus more on our creative on our site experience on understanding who we’re speaking to, because if how we deliver ads becomes more equitable, then we have to differentiate ourselves in new ways.

So that’s my big prediction for next year. As for where you can find me online I am Amalia e Fowler on Twitter. I have been in and out of that platform since our favorite billionaire took over. So who knows if I’m gonna be around there, but that’s the best place to find me as well as LinkedIn.

So feel free to follow me on LinkedIn. Again, it’s just Amalia Fowler. Like Julia. I am incredibly easy to find online for better or for worse. So if you just Google my name, you’ll figure it out. But I have my own consulting firm. I do a lot of Google ads audits. And so that’s the best way to get in touch with me.

I

FREDERICK VALLAEYS: think my favorite billionaire is Richard Branson.

JULIE BACCHINI: Yeah. He’s not actually my favorite. I just did not want to say his name.

FREDERICK VALLAEYS: So thank you both. You’ve been amazing guests. And also thank you to all the people who we asked and submitted videos to us to share some of their predictions. If you’ve enjoyed watching the show please subscribe at the bottom.

We also have ppctownhall. com where you can sign up for email notifications about the next episodes. You can also subscribe. So it automatically gets added to your calendars. Myself, I’m at Silicon Valleys on Twitter when I still go on there once in a while. But yeah, thank you everyone for a great 2022.

These were the 2023 predictions with Julie and Amalia. We hope to see you back next year. And whatever happens, I wish everyone lots and lots of success in their PPC campaigns ups and downs, lots of challenges. But, you know, we’ve been going through all of this kind of stuff for many, many years and always seem to come out.

Okay. So I’m, I’m optimistic about 2023 again. Thanks for watching.