How to Future-Proof Your Career in Marketing

Episode Description

So much has happened in the world of marketing in the last few months. Headways in artificial intelligence and the uncertainty of popular platforms are changing how we do marketing.

Yet if we approach our marketing tasks from a human perspective and build in workflows to protect efficiency we’ll be able to weather any innovation storm.

So this time on PPC Town Hall, we spoke to three internationally acclaimed digital marketers — Motoko Hunt, Andrea Cruz, and Sarah Stemen, who’ve seen sustained success despite various challenges.

Tune in to learn:

- How women can build a stand-out career in marketing?

- How to do ethical marketing in this age of privacy?

- How to stay nimble in a constantly-evolving industry?

and much more

Episode Takeaways

Building a Stand-Out Career in Marketing for Women

• Confidence and Self-Advocacy: Advocate for yourself by highlighting your achievements and the value you bring to the organization.
• Networking and Visibility: Increase your industry presence through networking, speaking engagements, and publications to establish authority.

Ethical Marketing in the Age of Privacy

• Transparency and Honesty: Maintain transparency with clients about campaign strategies and outcomes, ensuring ethical practices.
• Respecting Privacy: Adhere to privacy laws and ethical guidelines, particularly in diverse international markets.

Staying Nimble in a Constantly-Evolving Industry

• Continual Learning: Stay updated with the latest marketing trends and platforms through continual learning and adaptation.
• Cross-Functional Skills: Expand skills beyond traditional marketing areas to include digital, social media, and analytical capabilities.

Additional Takeaways

• Work-Life Balance: Strive for a healthy balance between professional responsibilities and personal life.
• Mentorship and Support: Engage in mentorship and support within the community to foster collaboration and shared growth.

Episode Transcript

ANDREA CRUZ: But having that interaction with people, more than just hearing a speaker give a wonderful talk, it’s talking to the day to day marketers and, and hearing their challenges and, Hey, I did this to fix it. And hey, I have you try this other thing that interaction of we are not alone and there’s other people doing cool stuff and having a moment to detach yourself from your day to day and just think about how can I incorporate this new learning into my day to day.

It’s always such an energizing moment in my life. So that 100 percent recommend go find a marketing club nearby, check online for courses, take a moment to really take a step back and look from another perspective because there’s a lot of great people doing great job out there or great work out there that you can really leverage.

NAVAH HOPKINS: Welcome to PPC Town Hall. My name is Navah Hopkins and I am elated to be here with three of my absolute favorites in the industry. One of the things that keeps PPC so interesting or pay per click marketing so interesting is the diverse and width and breadth of experiences that this industry supports.

Whether it’s B2B, B2C, whether we’re talking creative, whether we’re talking data analysis, There is a ton to be had. Now, I have with me Motoko Hunt, Andrea Cruz, and Sarah Stemen, and I cannot wait to get in. So, let’s get to it.

Hey guys! Welcome! Hi! So before we get to the questions, I’d love for us to go around And kind of say a quick who you are and what your marketing superpower is, because at the end of this episode, we’re going to be revealing who our Optmyzr sheroes are. So we’d love to get Your marketing superpowers.

Motoko, why don’t we start with you?

MOTOKO HUNT: Well my name is Motoko Hunt. I’m from a company called AJPR, which I started back in the 98. Over the years I’ve been working, my company does both PPC and SEO side also. And then I’ve been, you know, looking at how that this industry changed over the years.

So In how the women is thriving in this industry, especially really looking forward to discuss that, you know, with three of you, you know, that special women in the industry today.

NAVAH HOPKINS: And what about you, Sarah? What, what’s your marketing superpower? Well,

SARAH STEMEN: I would definitely say my marketing superpower is the fact that I will Google anything and everything.

So that’s sort of like, I, I just go to Google and believe it or not, before Google, I was a Yahoo person, but search search marketing kind of transitioned me. So it’s even funnier. But yeah, I think that that’s like, I feel like I can really put myself in the position of a searcher because man, Google probably has everything on me.

NAVAH HOPKINS: That’s a great question. And you, Andrea, what’s, what’s your marketing superpower?

ANDREA CRUZ: Well, first, thank you for having me. And what an honor to be among this beautiful, smart, overachieving group of women. You are all an inspiration. I don’t know if I have a marketing superpower other than I am so passionate for what we do.

It changes all the time. So if you like change. I felt this is the right industry to be in where you actually have to go out of the rules, even though they’re very standard rules to follow. And I love that variation in my life.

NAVAH HOPKINS: A hundred percent. And Motoko, I’m going to come back to you because you gave us your history, but not your superpower, but plenty of superpowers.

So, so what, what is your marketing superpower?

MOTOKO HUNT: Well, I think my special area or niche is. Probably the understanding the global marketing in general that not in you know, and then some people really super at the local search. I’m more on the global side and especially in the Asian market.

NAVAH HOPKINS: So what’s actually really interesting and this wasn’t, I have a list of questions that I was asked to put to you all, but this is one that kind of came up as, as Sarah was talking, that. We moved away from Yahoo to Google, and now we’re kind of thinking about moving back to Bing. And I’m really curious, Matoka, maybe you want to chime in first, and then the rest of you ladies can chime in as well.

How, how is search engine adoption shifting throughout our careers? Are you seeing more of, That that true pluralistic international take with all net all search engines getting adoption. Are we still seeing certain concentrations? Would love your takes.

MOTOKO HUNT: Yeah, it’s really different depending on the industry you are in.

In general, Google is definitely strong or, you know, no matter where you go, but in a certain market or certain countries, like in especially Asia, the local search engines, you know, they understand how the local customers behaviors. And because of that, they are, you know stronger in the, in the way than the Google.

But Google is definitely working to increase the market share there. And also Bing. Bing has been doing really good job growing their market share in Asia. And also, you know, there are other, you know, local smaller search engines, but or smaller platform that that people can advertise in the local market.

So it’s not just a Google. You know, and which makes it really interesting. And they give us the additional ways or additional place to reach the audience. So I think it’s a really good for clients, you know, the advertisers to have the more platforms than one

NAVAH HOPKINS: Andrea with your B to B. Take. Do you see it’s a similar?

Google’s the The gorilla in the room and everyone else is kind of scrambling for market share. Or do you, do you find that in the B2B world, those smaller engines actually have a little bit more opportunity?

ANDREA CRUZ: Well, that’s such an interesting thing because this year is the year of efficiency. This is the year where we all are.

Not all, but in most cases, we have the same budget as last year, and we are asked to be more efficient, even though we know everybody’s being asked the same thing. So, I actually had this conversation with a client about two to three weeks ago, which is, we are being more efficient in Europe with Microsoft ads than with Google ads.

And the client was so surprised. It was like, I cannot believe it. We must be fully rich in the market was like, no, your impression sharing has still opportunity to grow. And we can still push the ball whilst reducing our spending on Google and let’s shift things around. And we see this not only happening on The search engine market, but we also see it on some paid social platforms as well, which is we’re finding pockets of efficiency that didn’t exist five years ago.

So very excited to always find those opportunities and like Makoto said, to look into the markets because it might change what we see. North America might not be the same metrics we are seeing in Europe. Or Asia Pacific and so on and so forth

SARAH STEMEN: and Sarah, how about you? And what are you seeing? So, no, I think that’s super interesting.

So I predominantly right now have e commerce clients. And so I feel like a lot of it is also driven by how we, as people sort of behave too. So. When you think about the age that we’re in now, we’re in information overload. We’re also seeking how to’s, but maybe we don’t have the time to necessarily read a full blog post.

So there is more movement towards video searching, you know, and then having your product positioned as that solution. Right. So YouTube. I think more and more, it’s something that we are seeing success with. But even as we think about, and I hate to bring up like Tick Tock and some of the things that you know, I’m always hesitant to go right out of the gate with things like that, but people are navigating towards us because they’re quick, they’re easy, they get the information you want in that short timeframe and it’s digestible.

So, you know, I was, you know and I was reflecting when you said Yahoo and I’m like originally I liked Yahoo because I like to look at all the gossip and news on the front page. And now to me, like, I’m like, oh, that’s like a little bit too much. Like I’ve already found that in other channels in my life and been bombarded with that.

So.

NAVAH HOPKINS: It’s really interesting hearing all of your perspectives because I’m very much aligned. But what’s also interesting is seeing how people are kind of rediscovering these networks that were always great. They just didn’t necessarily. Understand or remember that they had these features. Like, I’m seeing all these posts about Microsoft.

Like, did you know that Microsoft did this? Microsoft’s doing this? Like, yes, it’s, they’ve been doing it for a while now and shameless plug that Optmyzr does support Google and Microsoft and Yahoo Japan and Amazon. Like, there’s, there’s a, there’s a value in honoring that every market is going to need different channels and only focusing on Google and only focusing on Google in English is putting you at a real disadvantage.

And I actually would like to use that as another shifting point. Have we all come from different perspectives and we all come from different backgrounds. There’s kind of no universal entry point into paid search or into marketing. What would you say your origin story looks like it was? Was it one of I’m changing careers?

Was it one of this is really interesting to me. So I just want to go dive in. We’d love to hear a little bit about the mentors, the learnings that went along the way in each of your origin stories. Whoever wants to go first can go first.

ANDREA CRUZ: I can start because I found the way I started on PPC was, was, I don’t, I don’t think it was unique, but I thought it was such a, an interesting shift because I used to work in organization and methods. I have a degree in, in business administration. So my job, my, one of my first jobs was to figure it out how to optimize a marketing team.

And I was, it was a traditional and digital marketing team. So I was able to. Look at both. How do we do print? How do we do TV? How do we do social media? And so on and so forth. Then I actually came to the United States to do my master’s degree and I found an internship to help optimize the sales process of a marketing agency.

Then when my internship was over, they told me, well, do you want to stay with us and do this? digital marketing full on position. And I was like, sure. So it was a lot of something I had already had a taste of, and I was just fully, really blowing it out and fell in love with it and been doing it for more than 10 years now.

So that’s my

NAVAH HOPKINS: story.

SARAH STEMEN: Sarah, what about yours? So I, wow, I started on the client side. And I actually, my background in it is in management information systems. So similar, but I do have that business background and then also information systems, auditing and control, which is more of an accounting degree.

And I graduated around the time that the big accounting firms were kind of pulling back. And so I took a job as a HTML programmer. So I was doing that and then a bunch of talented recruiters kept saying like, you should move into marketing analytics and that I was young. It required me moving.

No way. I’m not going to do that. And then like four or five years later, another recruiter was like, looking at your resume, this is the perfect job for you. And then when I when I came on board, it was like, it was what I said. I’d love to Google. And then I think just being a, such an information seeker, like I like a treasure hunt so getting into the accounts and seeing like what exactly is really going on here with these keywords that just, you know, I can lose myself in it, so, you know, it’s slowly evolved, you know, and like, I’m sure everybody here, like I’ve.

Since we kind of grew up with the industry, like, I mean, I’ve worked in social, I’ve worked in a lot of SEO, you know, it just happened to be that the PPC path, you know, fell that in that direction.

NAVAH HOPKINS: What

SARAH STEMEN: about you, Mitoko?

MOTOKO HUNT: Well where do I start? So when I, Was working on that traditional marketing company agency these things called internet started.

And then the companies, up until then, we were typing everything and fax everything. And the internet came and companies said, we’re going to use the email. And then we’re going to use the website. And then I start looking into that, and I saw a huge potential for the company. And then I suggested, I wrote down the business case, and then suggested to the company, and then none of the management were interested.

So I was frustrated. And then, so that was one of the reasons I, you know, changed my career path. Another thing was around that time, my husband got pregnant. transferred and my husband was in the Marine Corps and Which means every two, three years we were moving means every two, three years, I had to quit the job and I have to find a new job because no one could work remotely back then.

Right. So I was frustrated that too. So I decided to quit. Well I’m going to leave this company anyway, so I’m going to start my own thing. So that’s how I decided to start my own company. And then at the time in still in the nineties, late nineties, so there was no class available about the search or PPC or SEO or anything.

So people back then, I was. Pretty much everybody was self taught you know, trying to do things and then testing, you know, fail and some succeed. And that’s how we learn. Networking was a huge part of that learning process too. So you know, that’s how I started.

NAVAH HOPKINS: It’s funny the, the having to transfer every couple of years it’s, it’s the best story of how you take a lemon and you make lemonade.

That’s the best story, not just of entering the marketing industry, but entering entrepreneurship I’ve ever heard. That’s fantastic. My story is kind of silly. I wanted to be an English teacher, but then I realized that I would be both poor and ineffective. So I ended up transferring to Emerson went after having a conversation with a family member that told me I was being stupid not to pursue marketing.

So it’s kind of that similar story to you, Sarah, of why, why are you not pursuing this? Like, you’re denying a core part of your nature to not be in marketing. But what’s also kind of interesting is that digital marketing is very much like a game, and I’m an avid gamer. And so. Looking at it from the stories of the people in the psychology and then also kind of the worker placement game of managing accounts is just really fun.

So, yeah, it’s, it’s just interesting to, to kind of hear that even though we all had different stories, there’s kind of that overarching, we, we like chasing challenges and we like being fulfilled by, by a constantly, you know, Innovating industry that leads me to the next question about motivation.

How do we stay motivated? I know I’ll, I’ll share first. I was actually struggling really hard to stay motivated for about two years. It, it, Did go along with the pandemic, but it seems like we and PPC were in this rut of lack of innovation for a little bit, and then all of a sudden all the innovation happened.

I’m suddenly really engaged and interested again. But one of the things that kind of kept me engaged was actually helping people and seeing, seeing that impact. So really curious for you guys. How, how did you seem seem motivated? We’ll start with you, Sarah.

SARAH STEMEN: So I would say for me. My motivation has like weaned and ebbed with my children.

So right now my children are old enough that they’re pretty self sustainable. And, but they’re like hard to control because I have a teenager and you know, they’re just, Kind of crazy. So like my motivation right now is like work is something I feel I can control. And so just in general, it’s made me become just like a much higher quality producer because it’s my chance that what I do directly helps my clients, my coworkers, my company.

And so it’s kind of nice to be able to wrangle something in my life when, you know, my kids are just all over the place.

NAVAH HOPKINS: 100%. I, I cannot overstate how much I empathize and sympathize with that statement of like, running towards control. What about you, Mitoko?

MOTOKO HUNT: Well, the challenge part of it, it’s always, you know, keep me on the toe and always learning.

I like that part of this industry. Yeah, you know, Like you say now about that for for a while, it seems like doing the same thing over and over on a daily basis, and it can get tired. But you know, then again, there’s a lot of seems to even the campaigns optimize or make it more efficient.

There’s a lot of things you can do all the time, which is great working with a great clients. Really makes me happy and providing the results and then them being happy with the results and some of the clients because of that results get promoted within their company that really, you know, that brings me a joy too.

So those are the things you know. that keep me going.

NAVAH HOPKINS: And Andrea, how do you stay motivated? And I have a suspicion it has a little bit to do with your puppy, but.

ANDREA CRUZ: Well we can talk about Rocca if you guys want to talk about puppies, but I actually wanted to talk about What I have found that always brings me back to okay, let’s change the world type of Feeling is conferences and actually having interaction with people particularly in person.

I am all down for Working from home, I work from home. I would not change it for anything in the world, but having that interaction with people, more than just hearing a speaker give a wonderful talk, it’s talking to the day to day marketers and, and hearing their challenges and Hey, I did this to fix it.

And Hey, I have you try this other thing. That interaction of. We are not alone and there’s other people doing cool stuff and having a moment to detach yourself from your day to day and just think about how can I incorporate this new learning into my day to day. It’s always such an energizing moment in my life.

So that, that’s what I’m doing. 100 percent recommend go find a marketing club nearby, check online for courses, take a moment to really take a step back and look from another perspective because there’s a lot of great people doing great job out there or great work out there that you can really leverage.

NAVAH HOPKINS: A thousand percent agree. And there’s a, also a shameless plug for the Pacer Association which we all are members of and board members of. It is such a powerful, powerful thing to find your people and just connect with them. And, and one of the things that’s actually really a big reason why I’ve stayed in marketing, even though, you I, I’ve, I know I’ve found it sometimes tempting to kind of change or go back or think, think about other things is that ability to connect with fellow clever people and have a really meaningful impact in, in people’s lives.

Like, Motoko, to your point of, you, you saw someone get promoted off of the work that you got to do with them. Like, that’s, that’s so huge. Another question I have in this one, there’s a number of ways, I guess, that we can take it. The particular question that I was asked to ask is what role do we think honesty plays in marketing?

But I, I open it up that if, if we would like to also address, given that this is the privacy first era and how much kind of respecting consumer consent plays into it, not just how much does honesty play into it, but how much does overall Doing well by doing good and kind of ethical marketing. How much, how much does that play into not just the strategies that you employ, but kind of how your, your day to day works.

Anyone can go for go ahead and can go for it.

SARAH STEMEN: And I can go for this one because I’ve had a couple examples. So I guess the direction that we’ll take with that, it’s just our integrity as. You know, people who do PPC is constantly something we need to keep our eye on. I think a lot of people don’t understand our job and when working with clients, I have seen in the past data be spun in a way that’s not optimal and in the best interest of the client.

And I think we always need to make sure that we are operating in the best interest of our client and the campaigns that we support. And what I mean by that is. You know, shifting metrics. So sometimes focusing on the wrong metrics and then letting that slide. Yeah. So, you know, let’s, let’s like optimize your campaign for clicks, for example, you know, now in some cases, you know, that’s, that’s a direction you may have to go, but not necessarily something that I would recommend for the majority of clients.

And then I would also say just. Taking that ownership as a person behind, this is why that metric. And why that’s happening. And maybe that is something that I tested. Maybe I left the setting on and you know, the campaign was not targeting the location that you are after. And it was targeting the entire United States.

That is a honest mistake. And not only as an honest mistake, but when we’re working in multiple different client accounts, those mistakes can happen. How do you then handle that mistake with your, with your client and take You know, the honest approach, even if it’s very, very uncomfortable.

NAVAH HOPKINS: And typically clients will, will be understanding if you’re honest and upfront about it.

And you say, we, we own that this was a mistake and we caught it and we’re going to fix it. It’s much worse to try to hide it. And then it’s, it’s so much worse. It’s not great. Matoko, any, any thoughts there is, and I’m, I’m particularly curious on your take also, because you have the international perspective where there’s a, it’s not just a question of ethics.

It’s a question of breaking the law on somebody else’s thing.

MOTOKO HUNT: Yeah, each country has different regulations, so we need to be on top of that. And then similar to the data, you know, disclosure with the clients. We explains everything. We know why we set it up the campaign this way or why we are approaching messaging this way.

Why we are allocating the budget this way or why we, you know, reporting. You know, we make sure that we make sure that every, you know, clients on board for every little points of that to make sure that, you know, they have the access to the accounts as well. So, you know, tell my staff that the make sure, you know, you keep an eye on everything and everything is up to date because clients, you know, can question us, you know, Every day at any point which is really, you know, keep them in line and make sure that they are paying attention as best as they could to so that yeah, regulation wise and then the campaign wise we discuss every little points with the clients and then make sure they understand and fully on board.

NAVAH HOPKINS: And you made a really important point about the clients. I was, I was having a reporting call with someone whether they, they were reporting in their data and it was really confounding that they were just reporting the metrics. Not why they did what they did or what the impact of those metrics mean.

And I don’t think enough folks recognize how much more intelligent and savvy our customers are. They don’t need us to just tell them the data that’s going to be in a dashboard. They need that more substantial information. And the ethical, honest marketer is going to not just be able to provide the strategy.

They’ll be able to articulate and help bring their clients along on that journey. Andrea, thank you. What, what about you? What are, what are your takes on honest and ethical marketing?

ANDREA CRUZ: I think the other thing is there are so many marketers out there that love absolute statements.

NAVAH HOPKINS: Yes. Oh my God.

ANDREA CRUZ: Because nothing in life ever marketing included. can apply to everybody. So we need to learn and show not only our client, but also all our internal teams. Let’s not have absolute statements. There’s an explanation for everything and things might change because we have a very, um, what’s the word I’m looking for?

We have a very dynamic world. So that needs to be addressed. Everything should be handled on a case by case basis. Yes, we see trends, but we should call them trends. We should not call them everybody should run on PMAX or everybody should stop Microsoft advertising because it doesn’t work that way.

NAVAH HOPKINS: And one final note on this and then we’ll move on to the next piece.

It is so much easier to get clients on board and to get fellow marketers on board with whatever strategy you want to put forward, if you position things as paths and the potential pros and cons that can happen with those paths. The moment you make an absolute statement, like Andrea said, as much as I am a Sith at heart we are casting ourselves as the stereotypical bad guys because we are inherent, we’re either going to be right, but we’re only right some of the time.

We’re wrong, and then we made a wrong statement, and we’re polarizing in how things are going. So, so definitely, definitely, 100 percent agree, put forth paths, not, not absolutes. So this is a question that we can spend as much or as little time on it as you all like. I find it really interesting that we all have very We’re all extremely accomplished, well established, amazing perspectives in marketing.

We all have very different family lives. We all have very different takes on that balance of career and family. And I’m really interested to hear your guys takes on how you choose where to invest your emotional and mental and spiritual energy. Cause I, I’ll just share before I open it up to you guys to answer.

It sometimes is really stressful for me feeling like I’m not giving enough. to my family. And even though my family, just my husband and my dogs, there are other times where I feel like I’m not giving enough to my career. And so I would really love all, all of your takes on that. And Andrea, I don’t know if you want to start first since it’s been a bit since you’ve started first.

ANDREA CRUZ: Sure. I just had challenge. And I think as women, we might feel in more than our counterparts because we do a lot. I try to balance it out, but I have a husband that is also very much into working late nights and weekends. So I feel we both understand each other. But it’s all about finding some time to actually be attached.

I am the person that has focus more on my phone. So after 6 p. m. I will not get notifications. I will 100 percent look at my phone. I am guilty of it, but if I don’t have the constant pinging, it actually allows me to, okay, I’m going to read a book. I’m going to go outside. It’s my second to, to forget about it for a little bit and be able to focus on other things that are important to me.

MOTOKO HUNT: Do you want to go next? This has always been a challenge for me because especially because My husband’s in the search industry too. So, you know, the lunch conversation and then dinner conversation, weekend conversation, everything could lead into, you know, before we know it, we’re talking about search all day long.

And then this is not good for us. So we are, we are, and especially now that, you know, kids been gone, we are empty nesters. And so, you know, when we, Talk about something. It’s likely told that, you know, go toward that. So it’s but we are making a conscious decision and to not talk about it on the off time of, you know, finding a couple hours and then you know, cut off from the Internet in your away from this Internet connections and go like Andrea said, go work out.

side or, you know, something like that. And on the weekends, try not to do the work at all. And with me, you know, working with the clients in Asia, I tend to do a lot of the calls late at night too, because of the time difference. So in the case, you know, he will you know, prepare the dinner for us or, you know, we take turns so that you know, it’s not just on the one person, but I was thinking the other day.

You know, women, people tend to ask women, you know, if the women can do all or not, but they never ask that for men, you know, they never expect the men to do all, and so why do we have to do all, right? Share the, you know, the responsibilities, you know, the workload, and as a family, we should look into, you know, the way to find that, you know, the balance within the family so that everybody, you know, do their work and everybody’s happy.

I see those are the key.

NAVAH HOPKINS: I, I cannot agree with that more. One thing I’ll share and then Sarah, I’ll, I’ll pass it over to you. I think one of the best things that happened for me in my career and for, for my marriage with my husband is kind of forcing the issue of equality because for a very long time, I was the breadwinner for, for my house and I never, like, it was kind of a thing of pride, but it was also a well, I feel like I’m doing all of it.

And that acceptance and being willing to take a step back and just be okay. We’re both come bringing together the work we’re both sharing is it, it made everything easier. So a hundred percent, that is such a good actionable takeaway for all of you listening to Motoko. Be okay that we don’t have to do everything.

We might want to, but it’s, that’s such a great takeaway. And I will say, I appreciate that some of your extracurricular activities are metal concerts. I live vicariously through all the shows you go see. So Sarah, what about you? What, what are your takes on family and, and, or balance?

SARAH STEMEN: No, this is a great question.

Cause like I’ve said, I have three kids and also a husband that you know, he’s an executive at a, at a very large fortune 500 company. So it’s a lot. And I would say just accepting the fact that things do change and a lot of times they change during the year. So not only do I have three kids, but I have one in competitive gymnastics, competitive dance, and then another that plays like football wrestling tracks, they literally.

Each season, right? What the sports changes and then what the weather. So like for a long time, my husband was leaving three days a week at three o’clock to take my daughter to gymnastics. And then what he did is he spent those hours, cause he’s at the gym from about three o’clock till seven 30. He would spend that time doing training and personal development.

So he was able to get his a lot of his it security. Which, I mean, pretty extensive trainings taken care of, and Amazon trainings and things like that. And then when the weather gets warm, he can sit in the front and work. But now I’m taking a lot of those gymnastics shifts, and I actually will work also in the summer.

But then, when it’s cold, I’ll actually sit in the bleachers and use that time to socialize with the other moms. And so I block my calendar out from 3 p. m. on. And and it’s understood now that does mean logging in early making different sacrifices, but no matter where what happens, you know, you get your work done and then you also choose a company that supports these types of flexible arrangements.

NAVAH HOPKINS: I cannot overstate how much both that and Andrew, you made the point also about blocking off your calendar and protecting your time and having those unmovable hours. I mean, we talk about doing that in our workday first for projects and for getting things done. We need to do it for ourselves too. So really actionable takeaways, all three of you.

Amazing. One last thing I’ll share and then we’ll move on to the next question. I think one of the things that. Was the kindest thing I did for myself is taking away the pressure of I have to have a family by this time and allowing myself to give into my career and letting the family happen when it happens.

There, there was this idea I had in my head of, I have to have it done by this time so that I can enjoy my kids during this time. And then I’ll be an empty nest right this time. It’s. It’s not useful. Much better is to just be, allow yourself to be human and let what happens happen. So the next question I have is actually a question I ask almost everybody when I meet them for the first time.

So this is a little bit of a backstep for me because I’ve known all of you for many years and I love you all. What’s your favorite innovation we’ll say of the past year. And, and why whoever wants to go first.

SARAH STEMEN: I mean, I can because I have one right off the top. I mean, yeah, let’s go, Sarah. Absolutely. Cliche. I love chat GPT. I use it repeatedly and it’s because so my biggest issue is how do I say something concisely, especially being a very, very detailed person or how do I rephrase something so that it sounds.

Like it’s actually communicating what I mean. And I use it, I literally pop the tab open and we’ll have sentences rephrased for me all the time. And I credit it to just better communication. And then not bothering my husband to be like, how should I say this? It’s not bothering.

NAVAH HOPKINS: I’m going to, I’m going to do the thing where we, when people say they’re sorry, and they should say, thank you for appreciating or bothering.

It’s not, you’re not bothering. He’s delighted and elated to help you. But yeah, I totally agree with ChachiPT. And I have a feeling all of us will say ChachiPT to a certain extent. But Andrea how about you? I

ANDREA CRUZ: think I’m going to cheat. This is technically not an innovation, but it’s a shift. I have dedicated most of my career to B2B marketing.

So business to business. And something that is unique about this year, And a lot of people hear this stuff and they think it’s fake, but it’s true. For the very first year, 2023, it’s the year that Millennials and Gen Zs are the dominant group in buying committees. So this is people, hello, that, like me, We were, I remember when the internet was born.

It was there. It existed. And we did our homework at school with internet because it was there. And my mom was trying to show me with the books she bought that were super expensive. And we didn’t need them. So how are we adjusting our marketing strategies for this new group that it’s taking over? They might not be the ones that are going to sign the paperwork, but they are 100 percent of the big influencers in their group.

So that’s my take. It’s not necessarily an innovation that happened in the last year, but it’s something that we for sure need to be thinking about.

MOTOKO HUNT: Yeah, mine’s not necessarily happening in the last year either, but able to work remotely widely available. I think it’s really helpful, especially for women.

My staff, most of my staff are women with disabilities. Marry with kids, right? And then so that the, you know, I’m trying to give them freedom of setting up their own schedule as long as they do their work. Within a certain period of time. I don’t care what time of the day they work and where they work so that give them a freedom and flexibility to do the work and then quality of work when you give them a little bit of freedom like that they, you know, appreciate that and they, you know, return quality work.

So Ease of, you know, making it possible to work remotely and providing you know, while providing a quality of work. I think that’s really been helpful for many people, I think, especially in this industry.

NAVAH HOPKINS: So this is where I’m going to give a cop out and say, I agree with all of you. All of those were, were, were great, are, are great innovations.

And mine is not really. Again, within the last year, because I feel like we all would default to track GBT if it was suggested to be within the last year mine is actually how much mental health. Has been kind of celebrated as a key integral part of company culture and that we are building in processes and we are baking that in to our marketing efforts and thinking about that.

So as much as the privacy first web experience. Can sometimes be frustrating as a marketer. I actually really love how much it forces us to see people as people and not kind of stereotyping demographics. I really appreciate how much there’s a thought process behind that work life balance and how we, we target, how we communicate, but also how we set up our tasks.

And that idea of working hard instead of working smart, it’s, or working smart instead of working hard. That’s not even the conversation anymore. It’s just. How can we be as efficient as possible in all things, in our life, in our happiness, in all of it. So, that’s just something that I find really, really useful and one of the things that’s really empowering is seeing how many people are getting on board with kind of being kind to themselves.

There was a period I think where we were all being very, very hard on ourselves and we were demanding a lot. And then it’s, it’s, we seem like we’re in a period of kindness. Which is good. So one thing I’m actually really curious about. We’ve talked quite a bit about our lives, about kind of search.

I’m curious where you see this next era of marketing, whether marketing as a woman, marketing in general where you see that heading? Do you see it being one of the visual first. You see it being one of, we’re not going to even worry about marketing as a woman because we’re, we’re going to be done with stereotypes and demographics.

It’s not going to matter. We would love everyone, everyone’s takes. And we will start with Andrea.

ANDREA CRUZ: I think it’s all going to be about experience. Everybody just wants to have a positive experience. We talk about a period of kindness. We are used to this instant gratification. We want everything to be done today because we are all busy.

So, what about the experience? And if the person wants to consume video, It’s what they should get. If they want to go in depth and they are showing the intent that they want to go in depth and have a very detailed guide, step by step guide, all the information is out there for us to make that decision.

So I can only, imagine that this is going to be enhanced as we move forward. And what about you, Sarah?

SARAH STEMEN: So I would say it’s probably a race at this point to who can come to the market and figure out how to teach what we do in the most optimal way. I think that’s one of the single biggest challenges in our industry right now is, you know, when somebody new comes and says, I want to learn PPC.

Where to start it used to be really simple. Not simple, but we had set paths where we could Yeah, like, you know start out really being good at spreadsheets because you’re gonna have to build a lot of bulk sheets And it’s just not there it’s more of a Understanding that history and why things came to where they are.

And it’s still very, very hard to teach. So I think that I see in the future is there’s going to be some company, maybe, maybe Optmyzr, you guys are our thought leaders that really just come to the table with, with a great. I

MOTOKO HUNT: think as far as the marketing goes, advertising goes, that it’s going to be more and more diversified.

The platform will be multiply in the future. You know, going search is, you know, I think it’s going to be an important part of that advertising or marketing for years to come. But as the generation shifts and they’re interested shifts and when people spend more time. Will change over the years, and we need to be there where that wherever people go so that we need to be able to identify what else we should be marketing or targeting and also the education to the point, you know, Sarah’s point that education for about those new platforms or new marketplaces will be important, too.

NAVAH HOPKINS: It’s interesting to me that all four of us. And we’re all kind of cued into the fact that this is going to be the era of teaching your customers, teaching new marketers, like teaching to bring people on board could not agree with that more. The only thing I’ll add, and then we’ll, we’ll transition to another topic.

I really do believe this is the, the era of search going to the side and where you’ll capture people is more in those top of funnel moments. And to Andrea’s point, experiences are 100 percent part of that. But it’s also about just understanding you want to be that seed of desire. You don’t want to be them harvesting the crop when they already know what they want.

One thing I, I found actually really interesting. This is just a story. One of my favorite video games and books of all time, all time is Witcher, except. I didn’t actually play the Witcher games until I heard the Miracle of Sound song of Wake the White Wolf. And that song was so motivational and so inspiring and so special that I went out and go and got a copy of the Witcher and played both two and three.

And It’s understanding those moments where you can create the desire and understanding the desire manifests itself in different ways for different people. People have different styles of learning. People have different styles of wanting to consume information. So just being mindful of that. And I think that’s actually why we’re seeing so much of a shift towards cross network channels like PMATs because The average marketer today doesn’t necessarily definitely chime in if you disagree, but the average or agree the average marketer doesn’t invest as much time in non search.

They, they typically will default to search because that’s what we were habitually taught to focus on. And it’s, it’s really hard to break that habit. Actually, that’s We’d love you guys to chime in on that. How do you break the habit of going to search first?

Well,

ANDREA CRUZ: I’m gonna say, I think the people that default to search is because they are still on that last click attribution model. And it looks like search is the only channel doing anything other than direct and so on. So the way we break that conversation is by showcasing people through research and tools where their demographic is actually present because we’ve talked about this today a lot, which is people are not only on search anymore.

We know that they are on all these platforms. So which ones are the ones they are actually in, but they also have an intent to pursue an action when they are present in there. So it’s a balancing act between how do I showcase my information in a variety of networks without slicing my budget way too thin.

And

MOTOKO HUNT: Yumetoko? Yeah it’s, it’s really important, like I said earlier, that to be everywhere and understand that where your target audiences are. It’s just a challenge. It’s, You know, right now even when you’re trying to, you know, step outside of the search marketing it’s, you know, difficult to first learning those platforms immediately, quick enough to offer to the clients in our case and also that it’s not easy to maintain multiple platforms.

at once. And unless, you know, we completely rebuild the market plans for the clients, right? So it’s gonna be a learning curve and adaptation on both the agency side and also that run side. But I think it’s going to be one of the things that we should be definitely looking into that in the, you know, next, next year.

Couple of years. Definitely.

NAVAH HOPKINS: And Sarah, any thoughts on that of breaking the habit of search?

SARAH STEMEN: Yeah. And I would say it goes back to the, it’s sort of an old statement we’ve heard is this is a art art and a science, right? And so we have to fall back on that art piece of this. When it comes to, you know, what we’re all talking about is just moving up that funnel and just continuing to ask that question is, you know, that that product or that solution didn’t just end up in someone’s head.

There was some, you know, conscious or unconscious interaction at some point that brought your brand. to the forefront of their mind, you know, and I think that that’s always important is to remember the artistic side of our job. And I think it’s so easy especially like we’ve, we’ve said earlier in the conversation is when we are at a time where budgets are flat, we’re being called to be more efficient.

That temptation is really there to sit at the bottom of the funnel. and not invest in upper funnel. But I find that when I have these conversations, like just like this, you know, with my client and I say, I know what we want to do, but I also know what’s right as marketers, you would be really surprised how many clients are more aggressive than actually you would, you would think they would say, yes, yes, we should be.

We should be there because I know what’s best for my, my longterm success with my with my company.

NAVAH HOPKINS: So I want to get all of your takes on this and then we’ll, we’ll finish off with kind of that, that major takeaway that you want to share, share with the audience. We, as women, the data is clear, often get paid less than our male counterparts.

And I would say that all four of us are Power women like we we’ve owned our authority voices. We do what we need to do to advocate for our careers. I’d love to start with you, Motoko, and then we’ll go around what’s one bit of advice or one action item you can give to women or other marginalized groups that are need to advocate for themselves for that reasonable salary for that, that good career.

MOTOKO HUNT: Yeah. I think a lot of time it’s kind of on our side to write. The women feels that, you know this is enough for me or I should be grateful that I have this opportunities and then don’t even think about asking for more. But I think, you know, we should be have the more confident and believe in ourselves.

And then we know our worth. for the clients or for the company. And then, you know, it’s nothing wrong with to be paid for what you do. The service you provide if you realize that then your counterparts, the, you know, main or anybody else doing a similar job is getting paid more you should speak up, you know, definitely.

And then, but instead of just going to. Saying that I, I think I should get paid more just because I think it will be a better approach if you prepare yourself. These are things I’m doing, and then these are things that, you know, this person is doing, and then this is the results I brought, and these are the business I, you know, won for the company, or profit that I brought in for the company, or made efficient, so we saved this much money.

Putting in the numbers. So that you know, the company can use, you know, those are the data company can actually use to justify to increase your salary or the benefits, right? So I think everybody can do that and then prepare themselves a little, do a little bit of homework like that. And then, you know, again, be confident and then don’t be afraid to ask, you know for what you want for it.

NAVAH HOPKINS: And you, Andrew, any thoughts on that?

ANDREA CRUZ: Well, while statistically speaking, women are paid less than men, Latin American women are even paid even less. Yes. So that’s a stat that’s very close to my heart as a Venezuelan woman. What I would have told my younger self is, Andrea, You get all this good feedback from clients.

You are doing this great job Just write it down because then the moment you want to have the conversation you are scrambling to try to remember Something good to happen. So just write it down so you can have that conversation. I was talking about In an easier, more organized way, here’s how it has transitioned.

Here’s how it started with something small and here’s the end result. This is the time it took me. I was consistent throughout that time. But 100 percent be open to have a conversation about, and it’s not all about money either, but to really think about what do you want to get. Do you want more flexibility?

Do you want more benefits? Do you really just want more salary because your role and responsibilities have evolved into something that’s more complex? So just go for it. But 100 percent don’t, don’t take it for granted. Everything you are doing, it’s worth something. Nobody’s giving you something for free just because.

NAVAH HOPKINS: And Sarah, you want to take us home on that?

SARAH STEMEN: Yeah, no, I would agree with everyone’s statements there. And then just not being afraid to have a point of view, I think is really important. So, you know, I see often, and it might be sort of the natural tendency as women to want to keep everybody in the room, happy just say what you think and then own it.

And you don’t always have to back it up, even though you do. So like, I’ll find sometimes like a more, somebody who’s more junior will come and say, well, I asked, or I Googled, and this is like, you don’t have to say that, you know, just, this is my point of view. And then if they dig in and ask for your references and your resources, you’re happy to provide those, but that’s where you stand on the situation.

And I think consistently having a perspective is going to continue to build you up as that expert. And then I am a true believer that the rewards do come. Like, I think. I feel like I’ve been proof of that. Just slow and steady wins the race and, and continuing to just do the right thing for yourself and those around you.

NAVAH HOPKINS: I, I cannot agree with you three more. The only thing I’ll, I’ll add and I, and I mentioned this actually the last time we did this episode, but it’s, it’s worth repeating being a brand in and of yourself outside of the brand you work for. It makes it a lot harder to ignore you. So yes, when you put together those data And you set up that meeting.

It is one thing to be an internal resource that was only existing internally and they can listen to you or not. It’s quite another when you are fill in the blank, who speaks at these conferences, who is published on, on these articles on these blogs, who’s a respected voice in the space. And I am asking for this because I’m providing all this value and I am bringing me to the table and I cannot overstate what a shift it was for me in my career, going from basically having another woman tell my CEO and in front of our sales group that I deserved a 50 bonus for bringing in eight new deals.

In that day, which was soul crushing to advocating and growing to the to where I am now, and I am very proud to say I will shamelessly plug it Optmyzr is a very empowering place to work. We have some of the smartest, most brilliant women who work here, and I am in love every day with everything that I see in innovation from a technical standpoint, but also in how much women lift other women up.

And if you can find an opportunity to. If you see someone who’s struggling and, and you see that they’re struggling to kind of own their star power, having that conversation to help them open up, you have no idea the things that you’re changing in your, in their life and how it will help you. So I know we’re, we’re coming up on time.

So I’d love everyone to sign off with kind of one piece that you’d love to share, whether it’s with your younger self, whether it’s with the folks out there, what, however you want to take it. Just one, one last little actionable. end to the conversation. And Andrew, we’ll start with you.

ANDREA CRUZ: Oh, why don’t you ask me the toughest questions first, Nella?

NAVAH HOPKINS: Because I love you. I know what you’re going to

ANDREA CRUZ: say. This is very difficult. If you are passionate about what you are doing, everything will come to you. People will see that that moves you, that you are invested. And it’s going to be easier for you to have those tough conversations and spread the love.

Talk to people, find your community. You are not alone. And there’s a lot of wonderful people out there, like these beautiful, smart, talented women that will be open to have a conversation with you if you’re struggling. That’s great. Do you want to go next?

SARAH STEMEN: Yeah, so I would say the biggest thing, and I might have even said this on Twitter at one point, but like, it’s the whole, you can sit with us.

Like, there is a space for everyone in this community. Even if you’re saying what you think is the same thing that you’ve heard elsewhere, Just the fact that you are saying it makes it yours and you know, I oftentimes will listen to the same information over and over again, but it’s how somebody else said it that makes me listen to it differently.

So there’s room for everyone. Don’t feel like you’re not deserving to be at the table.

MOTOKO HUNT: Motoko? Yeah, I would say that don’t try to be perfect. You don’t have to be perfect. You can ask for help if you need to. You know, don’t be afraid to ask for help. And look for support. And, you know, support others if you can.

I think that would be you know, create And I think this industry is really open to that. And then the networking wise. You know, even though this industry is becoming such a big place to be still you know, we, there is a close knit of the people and then close networking opportunities everywhere.

So, you know, be part of the group. You know, don’t be afraid to ask for help and support the others again. I think those are the things that I tell myself to still and would like to encourage others to.

NAVAH HOPKINS: So I’m going to just sign off with It’s actually something I did earlier in the call of don’t apologize for your existence and don’t assume that things are a bother.

If we can say thank you for taking the time instead of sorry I took your time, or thank you for reviewing this instead of sorry to bother. It is the hugest mind shift. That you, you can make and it will help you own your power stands. It’ll help you own your, your, your perspective in your space in the room, which is incredibly important.

Now, we are going to be announcing the results of our Shiro campaign. So very excited to get to that. But before we do, Motoko, Andrea, Sarah, thank you guys so, so, so much for being here. You three are Some most incredible minds, women or otherwise in marketing, and I am so blessed and honored that you are willing to have this conversation with me here at PPC Town Hall and Optmyzr as well.

ANDREA CRUZ: It was our honor to be here with you because you are also a powerhouse and we appreciate you more than you can imagine. Deeply. Thank you. Hey

NAVAH HOPKINS: everybody. I am delighted to share with you the results of our Shiro campaign. Optmyzr has always made a big effort in not just supporting women from a feel good marketing push, but also employing some of the brightest minds in marketing, in product and engineering.

And we could. We could not be more thrilled to announce the results of our shero campaign. Now a few mechanics, with the exception of our winner, who is going to receive some fantastic prizes, mentorship, a GA4 workshop masterclass. And lots of accolades from us everyone else, these are all equal women, many, many different forms of star power.

We do not just have PPCs here, we have folks with coding chops, we have folks on the SEO side, we have folks on the social side. So all this is to say, thank you so much for leaning into your star power. And for supporting those who have made an impact in your life. Without any further ado, let’s get to our sheroes.

So, Pavirtha Sekhar, Senior Community Engagement Specialist at KISSFLOW. Amazing, amazing work and she is always bringing it for her team. Charo Gupta. Head of brand and content marketing at Hiver. She actually mentored one of our current Optmyzr folks, and we could not be more delighted to have her as part of the group, M Glover, the amazing tour de force and founder and head of social for Victris, thank you so much for all you do in empowering brands, but more importantly, by doing well, by doing good, Ashley McCarron, senior director at reprise digital, who is Could not say enough good things about you.

Oh my goodness. Amazing. Amazing work. Sarah Carling, VP of growth at Bowie health. I am in love with this woman. Her perspective is fantastic and she truly is a growth marketer going from tech and she still has those tech chops all the way to strategy. Nat or Natalie Ramirez, SEO product manager at the NBA.

So she definitely knows what it means to empower through healthy competition, but then also again, doing amazing, brilliant, brilliant work. Stephanie Wallace, VP of marketing at Nebu agency. Amazing, amazing feats of strength, feats of brilliance. She is just fantastic to our right. She’s the founder and director of Digital Scenes Just Limited.

I am personally very happy to see her on this list as a fellow member of the Page Search Association. She is just fantastic and I love her to pieces and you could not be in better hands when you go to work with her. Veronica Ruiz Morcelo. Senior Director of Marketing Specialist at Zest Digital, amazing speaker, amazing marketer, and all around tour de force.

Now, before I announce our winner, I need to preface this by saying marketing often enables sales, and some of the best, best marketers are those that really enable not just The prospects to fall in love with us but also sales to really understand how to communicate to each of our different folks so I could not be more delighted to announce the winner of the opt of the very first Optmyzr Shiro campaign is crystal tying director of pre sale solutions at overall.

What was said about Crystal, there was a number of amazing things celebrating her but that she always has the latest research. She’s always on top of things. She is hardworking and resourceful. She is beaming with positivity. And she just always brings those SEO best practices and white glove level of service.

So Crystal, congratulations. We will be in touch to connect you with all of the resources and thank you to everyone who submitted an entry. If you would like to connect with any of the lovely ladies that I have just highlighted, we are going to be tagging them with all of their socials and we’ll be amplifying them.

So absolutely get in touch. This might be a good new mentor for you. This might be a good person to do business with and to get someone who’s really amazing to power your marketing. And again, a big thank you from Optmyzr for always doing well by doing good And chasing the horizons of what’s possible and profit and victory.

Until next time. Thanks guys.