How to Run PPC Account Audits That Can Save You THOUSANDS of $$$ in Ad Spend

Episode Description

Just like how your car needs a regular tune-up, your PPC accounts need regular checkups or audits.

And neglecting them can hit you with some costly mistakes.

In this episode of PPC Town Hall, you’ll hear from Melissa Mackey, Director of Paid Search at Compound Growth Marketing.

Melissa brings over a decade of experience in paid search. And in this episode, she dives deep into the trenches, revealing the most costly mistakes she’s encountered during audits and how to steer clear of these pitfalls.

Tune into this episode to learn:

- How to properly audit your PPC accounts

- How often you should conduct these audits

- What mistakes to avoid while conducting audits

- What default settings you should avoid when working on your accounts

- How to protect your accounts from glitches

and more

Episode Takeaways

1. Proper Auditing of PPC Accounts:
   • Regular audits identify structural issues and hidden settings that could impact campaign performance. Ensure settings like location targeting are accurate to avoid unnecessary spending.
2. Frequency of Audits:
   • Perform audits quarterly using someone not involved daily to catch overlooked errors and optimize account settings.
3. Common Mistakes in Audits:
   • Avoid failing to update location and targeting options, and be cautious with default settings like automated extensions and broad match settings that may not align with business goals.
4. Avoiding Default Settings Pitfalls:
   • Manually check and customize settings such as automated extensions and broad match keywords to ensure relevance and efficiency in ad spend.
5. Protection Against Account Glitches:
   • Use monitoring tools and set up alerts to detect and address performance anomalies quickly, preventing prolonged issues.

Additional Takeaways:

• Emphasize integrating CRM and accurate conversion tracking to measure the true value of leads.
• Stay proactive with continuous learning, especially regarding AI and automation in PPC management.

Episode Transcript

Melissa: But I’ll tell you, and especially if you have a client, that maybe your relationship is a little rocky and you’re trying to kind of patch it up a little bit going in and saying, hey, we found these things that we needed to fix and we’ve addressed this and this will make your performance better. I wouldn’t paint it as stupid to a current client, but just say, hey.

Fred: There’s stupid is what we just use internally. Right?

Melissa: Yes, exactly. But I think that’s useful. I think that clients appreciate one of our core values at Compound Growth Marketing is always on offense, and I think that really makes you be always on offense when you’re proactive about those things. And so, yeah, I think that that’s important to do. Usually have someone else who’s not the person who runs the account day to day do the audit, because if you’re in it day to day, you’re like, well, I set this up. I know this is correct. And yet we’ve all made mistakes, like you said.

Fred: Hello and welcome to another episode of PPC Town Hall today. My guest is Melissa Mackey, who did a session at SMX next, talking about some of the biggest mistakes you can make in PPC. And it was very specifically to 2024 strategies. So what are the modern strategies that do and do not work in PPC? How do you avoid the biggest pitfalls and how do you run a successful account in the coming year? So with that, let’s get rolling and welcome Melissa Mackey to the show.

Melissa: Hi. Thanks.Great to be here, Fred.

Fred: All right, good to have you again, Melissa. You’ve been on the show a few times, so thanks for coming back. I guess it wasn’t too bad last time when I interviewed you. So thanks. I’m glad you still wanted to come back.

Melissa: Absolutely. I love it.

Fred: But remind people what you’re doing and kind of your primary focus. I mean, you do a lot of B to B, right? But tell folks what your strengths are.

Melissa: Yeah, absolutely. So I’ve done paid search since 2002, so going way back probably almost as long as you. Fred and I currently work for compound growth marketing. We are an agency that specializes in B to B. I’ve been in the B to B space since 2012, so that’s the world that I live in. And we have a revenue operations arm in addition to media. So we really try to get clients to understand how their leads progress from the initial lead all the way through the funnel.

Fred: Great. So the session you did at SMX next, tell us a little bit high level why you decided to talk about that topic.

Melissa: Yeah, there are so many. So we audit a lot of accounts, and every account has really a lot of structural problems, even accounts that have been run by other agencies or fairly knowledgeable people. We all miss things. And there are a lot of hidden settings in Google Ads and in Microsoft ads. There are a lot of things that can really trip you up and changes that get made over time that don’t get talked about a lot. And so I just kind of wanted to focus on what types of things we commonly find in these audits and how people could avoid those pitfalls.

Fred: Interesting. Do you think PPC has gotten easier or harder since you’ve been doing it for 20 years? How do you see that progression?

Melissa: I think it’s mostly harder. So there were things that were hard in the beginning. We didn’t have as much visibility, but now we’re getting less visibility. So it kind of went in a curve and we’re now on a downward curve in terms of the amount of control that we have and the amount of visibility. And it’s so complex and there are things that we can’t control that we just have to figure out how to sort of work around them. So I do think it’s getting harder. And competition, we used to be able.

Fred: To get competition, I think is one of the big things for sure. And I think what you’re saying there is like in the beginning, it was hard to make sure you had an exhaustive keyword list because broad match didn’t work quite as well. And whether it works well or not, we’ll discuss that. But it worked differently back then. Right. So you’d focus on, oh, do I have every misspelling of every keyword in the account? And then obviously all of that became automated. There’s a lot of AI running campaigns. So I think the level of challenge, the type of thing you have to worry about is dramatically changed. And I would agree with you that I think Google and Microsoft has really simplified it for the novice advertiser who doesn’t do this professionally. But if you’re a professional and you’re striving for the absolute best results, it is pretty complex and a lot more bells and whistles to worry about than in the past. And I think that kind of then goes into the whole point that you were making about audits. So you mentioned the importance of doing regular audits on PPC accounts. So what are some of these specific settings that people should really take a look at?

Melissa: Yeah, there are a lot of them, and some of them are quite simple one that I see people tripping up on a lot is location settings,and not so much which locations you’ve chosen, but the setting that says people in or interested inversus people in or regularly in your targeted location. The default is people in or interested in. And what you’ll end up finding is that even if you’re targeting, let’s say, for example, just the United States, if you have people in or interested in, you’re going to get traffic from all kinds of places, other countries that you probably didn’t want to target. So unless you’re doing some kind of travel or something where you want to reach people that are not in your targeted location. For us in the B to B world, we want to be very specific about who we’re reaching and where they’re located. And so just simply flipping that switch from people in or interested in to people in or regularly in can save thousands of dollars in spend outside of your targets. So that’s one big one.

Fred: And then let me pause on that one for a second. So that’s a really fascinating one. You gave the example of the country, right? So that makes sense. If you do legion, and obviously, it’s pretty specific to a certain country. If you do e commerce, you can probably ship within the whole United States or whatever country you operate in. How often do you take location settings down to a more granular level? And I would assume especially kind of like home services lead gen consumer, lead gen location would have to be fairly specific. But what does that look like in B to B for you?

Melissa: Yeah, we have some clients that are location specific who either we have an energy client who only sells to California and Texas and Australia, interestingly enough, because that’s where these energy policies are in place that allow them to operate, basically. So we do have clients like that. We have other clients that are just regional in nature. And so we have to be sometimes very granular with campaigns for even within a large metro area. Know, that Boston, for example, has a lot of distinct neighborhoods within the greater Boston area, and we have campaigns targeting all of…

Fred: Interesting. So if your market is like all of the Boston area, you would still split it out by those little areas within Boston. What sort of the benefit of that? Do you then control it differently at those levels, or do you like the reporting?

Melissa: All of those things, the control, the reporting, they’re distinct. That might be a kind of unique market, but I think other large cities have different pockets or neighborhoods that have very unique feel to them, type of clientele, that kind of thing. And it’s important to market to them specifically speaking their language.

Fred: So are you saying you have separate campaigns targeting each of these different little pockets so you can have different running.

Melissa: Yeah.

Fred: Interesting.And how much work? I mean, that sounds like a lot of work. How do you manage that?

Melissa: It is a lot of work. I have help. Yeah, you put things in place. You put scripts in place and automated reporting and things that you can kind of cut down on the time.

Fred: And tools like Optmyzr.

Melissa: Tools like Optmyzr, exactly. Yeah. All those things are really important. Yeah.

Fred: Okay, great. So that’s location. So you were going to go on to the next one?

Melissa: Yeah, I was going to go onto the next one, which is these hidden auto apply settings and automated extensions. This is another one. We found this in one of our accounts today that we thought we’d turned them off and we hadn’t. And Google keeps adding new automated extensions and they turn them on by default. And if you’re e-commerce, it is probably hard to create site links for every single product that you have. And that may make sense to use these automated extensions in B to B. They end up picking things like about us or leadership or things that are not compelling for a prospect to want to click on for these automated extensions. And some of them are flat out irrelevant or they don’t apply. They pick a wrong one for a campaign. You never want to use these things in B to B and it’s hidden. It’s like five clicks deep within Google Ads.

Fred: Okay, so turn off those automated extensions. But then I suppose on the flip side, some of these extensions do make a lot of sense. So you want to be proactive and check what is new and turn on the right thing. Because like you said, site links, they’re useful, they just have to be the right ones and they have to lead to pages that I’m sure you’re doing landing page optimization on rather than just some random page on the website. Because I could imagine when it comes to leadership, the leadership of a company does matter, right? Like if you’re going to work with a company and the leaders have been in that industry, they know the industry that probably speaks well of them. But I figure you have to kind of, I mean, oftentimes when you think about landing pages, it’s like the leadership might be one of the many things to put on the landing page to convince the prospect to convert. Taking them to just a page about that, maybe that’s where the fault lies.

Melissa: Right, exactly. It can be a selling point. It’s not usually the number one selling point. And there are other things that are more appropriate for site links, usually.

Fred: Got it. All right, so turn off those automated extensions. What’s the next one?

Melissa: Yeah, another one is we talked at the top of the show about broad match.Broad match without audiences and without smart bidding. This really turns it into even worse than the old broad match that used to be kind of pretty wild west, and everybody said, never use broad match. And I don’t say that anymore. Broad match can work very well for casting a wide net if you’re using it correctly, but you have to use it with smart bidding. And Google will tell you that part. They’ll say, you have to use it with smart bidding or it doesn’t work well. I say you also need to add audiences for observation. Really important to make sure that you are telling, because an audience is a signal. Broad match keywords really act more like signals than actual keywords. So it’s not so much people who are entering these queries into a search box. It’s more of people are looking for these types of things, and that’s kind of how the matching works. And so the audience adds an additional layer to that to say, yes, I want people who are looking for these types of things, and they need to be ABCDE, whatever the audience is, you choose. And like I said, they can be observed. But I’ve found that that makes it work much more effectively. Frankly, it makes all smart bidding work more effectively to layer audiences on. But we routinely see campaigns that have just broad match and none of that.

Fred: And when you say that it works better when you add audiences. So in my mind, I can construct this, as in,when you put out broad match, it casts a really wide net, and some pockets will be good traffic it brings, and some pockets will be not-so-good traffic. By adding audiences and in observation mode, like you’re saying, you can see, oh, well, there might be this one little niche pocket for this specific audience that works really well. Is that kind of the point? Or is it just the plain fact of adding audiences and doing nothing proactively with that audience data that just makes it work better?

Melissa: So both. So I think at the beginning, when you first launch broad match, it helps to layer that signal on, and then it also helps when you’re doing optimization down the road to see,okay, this audience, even though it really is a good target for us, isn’t working, or vice versa.

Fred: And so give some examples of audiences that someone might layer in. Does it have to be like your first party, or do you take some of the standard audiences that Google has both.

Melissa: If you have first-party audiences, definitely use them and you can use them as exclusions. Or, you know, if you have an audience of your customers,you can layer that on for observation and that tell, hey,these are the types of people we want to reach. If you have people who have not been good leads, hang on to that and use that as an exclusion list, for example, for first party. But we also use the in-market audiences quite a lot. There’s some that are for company size. There’s some that are a lot of tech, we have a lot of tech clients, and there’s a lot of tech audiences for cloud power users and business computing and network security and things like that, that they’ve gotten much more robust over the last few years with these kinds of more B to B focused audiences. It’s still lacking. It’s not as good as like a LinkedIn or something like that, but it’s getting there. And so we use those all the time. And then some things that will surprise you. You’ll find things know frequent travelers and a lot of times frequent travelers are business owners and you may not think of that. And actually, if you go to the insights section in Google Ads, they surface a lot of this for you. They say this audience indexes at seven x the average for your account, and then you can layer those on and test them. And a lot of times those work well and they’re not things that you would think of initially.

Fred: Very cool. All right, so audiences add them in.

Melissa: Yeah. What’s next? Oh my gosh. Let’s see, what else did we have? I want to talk a little bit about Bing Microsoft ads because they have a lot of settings that Google doesn’t have. And they have a lot of settings at the ad group level that in Google are at the campaign level. I recommend when you’re looking at your Bing accounts or if you’re setting something up in Bing, to actually go through all of those ad group settings in detail and check those because you will find things in there like day parting, you’ll find things like targeting. And some of this is in Google Ads, but I think people just, they never turn it on. And it’s really important to make sure that you check all of this because there’s bid adjustments. There can be campaign end dates, there can be networks. So you can choose networks at the ad group level. In Microsoft, you can choose demographic targeting. There are a lot of things in there that isn’t available or isn’t commonly used in Google. At that level. It’s at the campaign level. So very important to check that and make sure that you don’t have something in there that you didn’t want.

Fred: Yeah. And just the fact that it’s at the ad group level and most people have more ad groups than campaigns just expands the problem and makes it more likely that you’ve got it wrong in at least some of the places. That’s great advice.

Melissa: Yeah.

Fred: Now, as far as auditing, a lot of people probably often think of audits as something you do when you’re trying to win business from somebody else. But how frequently do you think people should audit? Should you be doing that even after you already have the clients? And I guess even the best agency makes mistakes. Right? So you probably should. But what’s the cadence that you think about for this?

Melissa: Yeah, absolutely. We try to do them quarterly on our existing accounts and usually have someone else who’s not the person who runs the account day to day do the audit, because if you’re in it day to day, you’re like, well, I set this up. I know this is correct. And yet we’ve all made mistakes. Like you said, a lot of times mistakes happen when you copy a campaign and then you say, oh, I want to use all these campaign settings. And so I’m going to just copy this campaign or copy the shell of the campaign and then put all my new stuff in there. But you forgot one setting, or you forgot one thing that you needed to change or URL parameters. If a client uses custom parameters in their URL, or they have strings that are in that final URL suffix or things like that, we’ve gotten tripped up many times on that because it was copied from one campaign to another. So anyway, we try to do audits quarterly and just go through, and we have actually a document, a QA document that we go through and check all of those things to make sure that something isn’t where it doesn’t.

Fred: I mean, obviously that helps the client because it prevents mistakes from lingering. But it also sounds like a great defensive mechanism because, you know, your clients are talking to others and being pitched by other agencies and consultants, and they’re using audits to make you look bad. Right, exactly. And by having someone internally do this, that account manager has to defend their work and be ready to explain why things were done a certain way, which will help in the case of a competitor coming to try to poach that business. To what degree do you run? Maybe, let’s call them stupid audits. Right.The type of audit that your competitor might do to try to get that business where it’s more like picking up on things that don’t really matter but might sound interesting to a prospective client. Do you bake that in as well?

Melissa: Stupid audits? That’s funny. We typically do those for new business, but I like to do it on existing clients too, because there are these hidden things that might look dumb. But I’ll tell you, and especially if you have a client that maybe your relationship is a little rocky and you’re trying to kind of patch it up a little bit going in and saying, hey, we found these things that we needed to fix and we’ve addressed this and this will make your performance better. I wouldn’t paint it as stupid to a current client, but just say, hey.

Fred: There’s what we just use internally, right?

Melissa: Yes, exactly. But I think that’s useful. I think that clients appreciate that one of our core values at Compound Growth Marketing is always on offense, and I think that really makes you be always on offense when you’re proactive about those things. And so, yeah, I think that that’s important to do.

Fred: Great. Now, obviously you do these audits once a quarter, but stuff goes wrong in between. Do you have any defensive mechanisms? I know you as an agency play offense,but do you have any defensive mechanisms to find out about those stupid mistakes? Again, there’s the word stupid. But people do make silly mistakes when they copy, like you said, ad groups, and they forget about some of the URL settings, for example, do you have a way to find out sooner than that? Quarterly holiday?

Melissa: Yeah, there are several things that you can do. I mean, one obviously would be to use a tool like Optmyzr and have alerts built in. And I know you have a lot of those settings where things can surface to you right away,and I strongly recommend using tools like that. It really will far make up for whatever the nominal price that you charge for it in catching errors and surfacing things. You can also use scripts and frankly, just a good thorough QA process to make sure that things haven’t gotten messed up again. When we launch something new, we have always two sets of eyes on it to make sure that. But then performance can go wonky too. Or I had the example of how expanded audiences got randomly turned on for one of our campaigns, and that was something that if we weren’t checking and watching performance and see a campaign that had fairly low impressions and clicks suddenly go through the roof and was hitting its budget every day, that was a red flag and a problem.

Fred: Because that expanded.When you said that got randomly turned on.Like this was not an account manager on the team who mistakenly randomly turned it on. This was Google who took your setting and actually didn’t respect it, right?

Melissa: Yep.

Fred: So clearly, even the best possible account manager, you got everything right.Like Google’s still going to sometimes not do what you wanted it to do. So that’s why these audits and these checks are so important. And then it’s interesting because obviously, you don’t know what Google is going to mess up, but the way that you found out about this was by having alerts set on big spikes in impressions or big differences in performance. And I think CPC is something that you advocate as still important even in today’s day and age of profit. Roas CPA so talk a little bit about where CPC fits into all of this.

Melissa: Yeah, CPC is definitely still important. And that is something that I talked about in the SMX presentation where even if you’re bidding on target Roastarget CPA, these bid settings that Google doesn’t even show you what your bid is when you’re using those bid settings, it does show you your actual CPC but it doesn’t show you what your bid is. And that can go wildly out of control. And we find a lot of accounts that are using maximize clicks, which is not a conversion-based strategy, and they don’t have a maximum cost per click set. And then they wonder why, how come we’re paying $100 a click on this campaign or whatever? So that’s really important to keep an eye on and at a minimum be monitoring it. And if you’re using something that’s not target ROAS target CPA, make sure that you put those bid caps in and you can even do that on a maximized conversions or target CPA strategy if you have portfolio bidding in place. So that’s something that’s smart to do. And there are some scripts that can alert you to this as well. Or again, tools like Optmyzr will tell you, hey, if my cost per click is over $50, I want to get an alert on that because clients will freak out. They may tell you, oh, we just care about our CPA, we don’t care what we pay for that click, but they really do care, and they’re going to be unhappy when they see those numbers.

Fred: Exactly. I mean, clients are all over the map usually when it comes to setting goals and what they care about, and they may only communicate to you partially. And maybe one of the simplest ways to think about this too, is listen, if you do lead gen and you know that a lead is worth x amount of dollars. Sure. Automated bidding is great. So broad match plus automated bidding, plus audience layering, plus RSAs, Google can figure out how to get you to the target CPA you need to be at. But if you know lead is not worth more than x dollars, and that should absolutely be your bid cap.Right.It makes no sense to get that extra lead. If it’s too expensive. It’s more expensive than what it’s worth to your business.

Melissa: Exactly.

Fred: But that kind of then goes into conversions. Right. So talk a little bit about what should be a conversion. Like, are people, by and large, measuring conversions correctly, or is that still a big opportunity?

Melissa: You often find that’s a huge opportunity. So we find flat-out errors in conversion tracking. We find accounts that aren’t tracking conversions and spending pretty significant sums of money sometimes. It’s just shocking to me. But one of the big things in B to B especially is using offline conversion imports or connecting your CRM to Google Ads. And that is just critical because usually what we find companies are measuring is just a form fill. And we all know that people can fill out a form and be completely unqualified for that business. It can be students, it can be just Mickey Mouse, it can be bots, it could be any kind of whatever, filling out that form. And so you can have campaigns that look to us as managers like this is really gangbusters. But then the client comes back and says our leads are terrible. And then you have that uncomfortable conversation. And so you want to make sure that you actually have that CRM plugged in. If they’re using HubSpot, if they’re using Pardot, if they’re using Marketo if they’re using Salesforce. You can connect almost anything to Google Ads at this point with Zapier. So make sure you do that. It’s a big pain point still, even though I think Google has made it pretty easy, but it’s just a lack of knowledge on the part of clients that a, this is possible and b, how to do it. So that’s something that we work with our clients on to get those things connected. And then not only can you see, was this actually a real lead and not just a formfill, but is it going down the funnel? Is it actually making it to opportunity, to sale, to close? How did that lead progress through the system?

Fred: Yeah, I agree. It’s one of the biggest opportunities, given all the automation from the ad engines. If you’re not communicating what you truly care about, how good of a job do you expect them to do?Giving you more of. So that’s sort of the level of quality of lead. But you also mentioned Mickey Mouse, and Mickey Mouseis in the public domain at this point. So we can talk about Mickey Mouse as much as we want. But if Mickey Mouse is filling out that form, that sounds pretty fraudulent. Right. Is that one thing you look at as well with clients click fraud protection?

Melissa: We do, and we’ve had some clients bring that up to us. Honestly, a lot of clients view it as just sort of the cost of doing business. And if they’re happy with the CPAs that they’re getting, they don’t worry too much about it. But I think that there are certain pockets and verticals that do have a real problem with this. And it’s something that if you’re having a problem with it, if you’re seeing a lot of fraud or a lot of really low-quality traffic, you should look into some of these solutions out there that will help prevent that. Although I’ve heard that even some of those, you don’t always get the refunds that you should bad form fills is another problem. And those click fraud solutions don’t always catch those. So it’s a challenge.

Fred: It is a challenge. And I suppose all of the things that you talked about as far as what you do in an audit, that’s really the defense. Right. And it does get rid of a lot of that spammy or invalid traffic, because the more you communicate to Google what it is you truly want, what locations, what audiences, what constitutes a high-quality lead, those systems are built. I mean, they’re pretty good systems that Google builds, and they will help you get more of the stuff you want. And so I think the biggest mistake is just setting it up incorrectly, and that causes all sorts of problems, whether it’s too highCPCs or low-quality lead traffic, et cetera. So that’s fantastic advice, Melissa, on audits, do you want to do some rapid fire?

Melissa: Let’s do it.

Fred: All right, so the first one is, what is something that you believe in that a majority of other marketers may disagree with?

Melissa: Everything is worth testing. I find a lot of times people say, oh, that’ll never work, or, oh, we tried that, or that doesn’t make any sense. And sometimes the opposite of what you think makes sense is a good test because it might work better than anything you’ve ever tried. So as long as it’s not against your brand or fraudulent or whatever, test it.

Fred: All right, testing, testing, testing. I love it. What is your favorite AI tool? And Chat GPT is not a correct answer. And how do you use it?

Melissa: Oh my.

Fred: You got to get more specific. It could be Chat GPT, but you got to get more specific.

Melissa: Well, I’m not an AI expert by any stretch of the imagination, but what I have used ChatGPT for, quite successfully, is getting a starter list of keywords for a very esoteric industry where it is hard to even think of more than one or two phrases that describe what the client does. And I’ve had good luck with putting that in and having it tell me, hey, start with this. And then that gives me something to put into the other keyword tools. So I need to get far better with AI. That’s one of my resolutions for this year, is to get better with it.

Fred: No. And that makes a ton of sense. I mean, it’s ingested so much of the world’s information, it probably has some pretty good keyword ideas. I also love you. I mean, in that scenario, I probably use it for audiences, right? I would say, okay, this esoteric business, like what kind of people might be looking to buy it? And then you feed in those related keywords and you get your first set of audiences to layer in. Like you said, everyone should do. Awesome.

Melissa: Absolutely.

Fred: So what is one important skill advertisers should develop in 2024 to stand out?

Melissa: Well, AI would be one for sure, but I think we still need to have critical thinking and curiosity. Those are really skills that are going to be timeless for you, and especially in this era of data being more obscured and us not getting the level of detail that we once got, you have to be willing to dig in and figure out what’s really going on.

Fred: Makes sense. Okay, next one. Besides Google and Microsoft, which you’ve covered, is there an emerging ad platform, or what would be your next choice besides those two that people should take a look at?

Melissa: Yeah, next choice is definitely LinkedIn.It’s not really emerging, but LinkedIn has made huge strides over the last, even probably two or three years in terms of the quality of traffic. It is still a little pricey, but we get great results from LinkedIn.And their lead gen forums are really good. Their conversation ads have gotten really good. If you’re B to B, you should definitely be testing LinkedIn.Another one that we are dabbling in, and we’ll do a lot more this year, is Reddit. Reddit is kind of a specific use case, but their paid search program in the right instance with the right client is quite successful.

Fred: Interesting, Reddit. So, yeah, that’s kind of a new one. Not a lot of people talk about that. Great. And then what’s an underrated PPC metric that you think people should pay more attention to?

Melissa: Well, we talked about CPC, and I think that’s one for sure, that a lot of people forget that that’s still a thing. The other one is looking at those down-funnel metrics. Everybody focuses so much on the forum fill and then they kind of go, well, here, client. Now it’s your problem. But it really is on us to make sure that we’re helping our clients succeed. And so we need to understand how do things go through the funnel. How can we help the client make that better and get better traffic to them?

Fred: Great. Okay, Melissa, thank you so much for opening up and sharing all this great insight with our audience. So if you’ve enjoyed this, which I certainly have, please hit the subscribe button at the bottom there, and we will let you know the next episode when that comes out. Melissa, how do people get a hold of you?

Melissa: Yeah, you can find me on Twitter at Beyond the Paid. I’m also on LinkedIn.Just look for Melissa Mackey.

Fred: Great. Okay, well, thanks, everyone, for watching.

Thanks, Melissa, for being with us today, and we’ll see you for the next episode.