PPC Survey 2024: Insights, Benchmarks, and Trends in PPC, AI, PMax and More

Episode Description

In this episode, I spoke to some of the partners responsible for PPC Survey 2024: Wijnand Meijer, Ed Leake, and Mike Ryan.

The PPC Survey was filled out by more than a thousand advertisers from agencies and in-house teams to freelancers. And in this, they answered a lot of questions ranging from where they’re going to spend more money or less money, which platforms they trust and not trust, and how they’re thinking about generative AI and automation.

The survey is packed with unique benchmarks and trends to help you understand what’s working and what’s not in PPC.

Tune in to learn:

- Goals, priorities, and challenges of PPC pros in 2024 and beyond

- Expectations for 2024 ad budgets, per platform and campaign type

- Satisfaction with AI adoption

- Satisfaction levels of platforms and tools

- Challenges with Google Ads Performance Max

and more

Episode Takeaways

1. Goals, Priorities, and Challenges of PPC Pros in 2024 and Beyond:
   • AI and automation are primary focuses, with challenges balancing control and automated tools.
2. Expectations for 2024 Ad Budgets, Per Platform and Campaign Type:
   • Budgets are shifting towards platforms with effective AI integration, reflecting performance evaluations.
3. Satisfaction with AI Adoption:
   • Satisfaction varies by task, higher for routine tasks like writing emails and lower for complex functions like budget management.
4. Satisfaction Levels of Platforms and Tools:
   • Higher satisfaction with tools allowing manual control and lower with automated tools lacking transparency.
5. Challenges with Google Ads Performance Max:
   • Challenges include lack of control and transparency, with mixed feelings about the quality of automated outcomes.

Additional Insights:

• Trust in advertising platforms is declining, with concerns over transparency and alignment with advertiser goals.
• There is skepticism about losing control over campaigns due to increased automation.

Episode Transcript

FREDERICK VALLAEYS: Hello and welcome to PPC Town Hall. My name is Fred Vallaeys. I’m your host. I’m also the CEO and co founder and Optmyzr of PPC Management Tool. For today’s episode, we’re going to do something a little different. We have more guests than usual, but that’s because we’ve invited some of the partners responsible for the PPC survey.

PPC survey was filled out by more than a thousand advertisers, agencies, and in house teams. And in this, they answered a lot of questions, and they gave some insight into where they’re going to spend more money and less money over the years to come. They told us which tools and capabilities and the ad platforms they like and dislike and how they’re thinking about generative AI and its impact on our industry.

So a lot of great insights and we’ve got some great partners from PPC survey to tell us what they think about these results. So let’s head into the studio and get started with another episode of PPC town hall. All right. And here are my guests for today. We have a couple of returning people. So we have Mike Ryan.

Hello. Welcome back.

MIKE RYAN: Hey, thanks for having me. I think it’s my third time on really appreciate it.

FREDERICK VALLAEYS: Yeah. Yeah. We love talking to you. We have Ed Leake. I think you’ve been on once before. Just the ones

ED LEAKE: now it’s twice. It’s one’s too many now.

FREDERICK VALLAEYS: Well, you know, we I think the episode that you were on was one of our most highly rated ones.

You you bring a good audience. So. We’re very happy to have you. It’s the hair,

ED LEAKE: Fred,

FREDERICK VALLAEYS: it’s

ED LEAKE: the hair.

FREDERICK VALLAEYS: Yeah, actually measuring the height of the hair. I think Mike Ryan’s got two beat. Then you might come in second there. And then yeah, Robert in guys, at least wait until. And then our first timer on the show we have Wijnand, then he, he started the the mastermind behind the PPC survey.

So he’s really the main guy today. So thank you for coming on the show. Yeah. Thanks for having me. Yeah. Thanks for coming on. So so you being sort of the mastermind, like I said, behind the PPC survey, this is the second time that you’ve done this first time that I’ve been involved with Optmyzr but tell us a little bit more about the effort and why you started it and what’s coming out here soon.

Yeah.

WIJNAND MEIJER: So a bit more than two years ago, we with a couple of other companies it started actually by just wanting to have the data trying to find some benchmarks, some opinions from PPC professionals about certain topics and did some research back then. And I found the other, there were some surveys, but they were already pretty old and pretty high level.

Didn’t go really deep. And That’s how it started. It’s like, why, why, why not really do it again? BBC hero did a survey once, marketing land did a survey once. They, they all seem to do it just once and then never again.

FREDERICK VALLAEYS: I think I know why I think when I look at you and all the work that you put in.

Once again, like, wow, that was a lot more than

WIJNAND MEIJER: I thought never again after. And then actually I made a, I made it bigger and more complex. And all those surveys, one of the things that people will see, or maybe know from the previous edition, those surveys. They would just averages over the whole population.

And what I like about this survey, we ask you about your role, your company type, your spend level, your geography, your location. And it allows us to segment the data whenever it makes sense, so we can compare. So we, we ask different groups the, the same question and we can look at like, how does US compare to Europe?

Right? And, and sometimes it’s similar, sometimes it’s quite different. And, and I think those differences make it extra interesting. So, yeah,

FREDERICK VALLAEYS: and so some people will be listening to this on the podcast. So we’ll try to tell you what we see on screen and for the folks watching on YouTube or LinkedIn video.

So we got some slides here. So here’s one that shows kind of the global distribution of the survey.

WIJNAND MEIJER: Yeah, I’m going to give a bit of background on on who filled in the survey and then each of you will comment on, I think, like sort of eight results and there’s 50 plus. So this is just a tip of the iceberg of what people can read in a week or so, whenever it comes up.

But yeah, this is. Last time we did, we had 540 people that did the survey two years ago, and we were ambitious. The seven of us, right? So there are a lot of partners that will show on the screen for many slides. Let’s go for a thousand, although no online marketing survey ever. I had more than 1000 that I know of respondents and we managed to get 1138 and I hope it’s visible that I can highlight a bit how it was distributed across the world.

So 40 percent came out of Europe or continental Europe. We. I’d like to treat the UK separately as they, as they’re used to, and UK and Ireland 15%, North America being US and Canada, 30%. Those were the three main regions, and then you see it kind of gets a bit lower numbers for the rest of the world, the grey areas we didn’t get responses from.

Kind of makes sense because we’re an English survey targeting, you know, Google minded industries and people. So a bit less of those China and Russia, for example, but yeah, so we’re, we have, so we have, that I know of the biggest survey ever done across BBC or online marketing professionals, which allows us to have solid data on many topics.

We go pretty deep in a survey and even if we go really deep, and that means that not everyone Not all 1100 people get the same questions that we still have. Always a couple of 100 that what that’s we’re saying, making it pretty yeah, significant.

FREDERICK VALLAEYS: and that was a really important point that I think about the survey is that it was going out to agencies as well as freelancers.

And so there was a lot of branching logic in those surveys to make sure that people actually answered about the topics they should know about. Yeah. We were asking, You know, sort of the C-A-C-M-O level person, how often they work with scripts, because that’s probably not what they’re gonna know about.

WIJNAND MEIJER: No, exactly.

Yeah. If you were more, if you were more like in the leadership role, you had a pretty short survey. If you were like a hands-on specialist it probably took you 20 minutes to to do the whole survey. But it was worth it. I hope. ‘cause it gave us a lot of insights. And this is the distribution indeed across, you know, across company types.

Where I want to just hide agencies as a majority there. And if you add up the freelancers, that’s actually 75 percent together serving clients. 20 percent doing it in house and just 5%. And that’s always the toughest audience to reach our brands that hire an agency. So what we could not do, like we couldn’t do two years ago, we hope for, but.

Stuff is have solid data on what do clients think about their agency or the industry and, and how, what do they think is important? And I would still love to have enough of those to really make it solid, but maybe next time, or maybe we’ll find a separate way to reach those people because those people are not, you know on search engine land and on LinkedIn reading all the latest PMX news.

So we have to reach them another way. That’s right. Next time. And

FREDERICK VALLAEYS: then

WIJNAND MEIJER: as far as their experience, talk about that a little bit. Well, as you can see on this chart pretty experienced audience that we managed to reach. If you go to the, if you look at the first parts of less than one or one to two years, that’s actually a minority.

Most people I was surprised to see 30 percent with more than 10 years of experience. Like people are not getting tired of this. Apparently after 10 years, just keep doing it and filling in surveys. So yeah that, that’s kind of cool. Cause that means that, you know, they have some perspective when they answer these questions and.

FREDERICK VALLAEYS: And then the distribution of where they advertise, I guess no surprise there. Most people are advertising on Google. Yeah, this

WIJNAND MEIJER: is just for the room to make sure that people don’t see this as kind of a spend distribution or something. This is just, we ask, like, No, which channels does your team or do you use not necessarily how much do you spend on them?

I think the most for me, the most surprising part was Amazon being relatively low here. Maybe because it doesn’t make sense for every advertiser to be on Amazon. But when they do, they probably spend significantly a lot of pretty much.

FREDERICK VALLAEYS: Yeah, from my perspective, I mean, so Optmyzr covers Amazon PPC as well.

We have tools for that, but we find that there’s very little overlap between a Google advertiser, typical Google advertiser and an Amazon marketplace seller slash advertiser. So my sense would be just, it’s a different audience and given connections that us have, we probably didn’t reach that many Amazon folks.

Could be, yeah. What roles do you play?

WIJNAND MEIJER: Well, again, I think we have a nicely distributed roles here. Majority being the, what we call, individual contributor, right? Whether that’s a specialist, consultant, analyst, it’s called differently in different companies, but it’s the person doing the hands on campaign management.

Obviously there are also more of those than there are managers or executives, but I think we also managed to reach a decent amount of, of those. So when it makes sense in the report, we will split those roles out and we asked them different questions. Yeah.

FREDERICK VALLAEYS: All right. So so that’s kind of who answered the survey.

So now let’s take a look at what came out of it. So priorities for 2024, what do people care about? We’re at the room.

ED LEAKE: Yeah, I can leave with this. I think it’s pretty obvious. For anyone that’s listening to this the top priority came in as AI and automation. And I think if you were a betting person, you probably could have bet that that would have been top and then followed by campaign performance.

So I don’t think there’s a huge amount to say on this slide, other than if we consider that 75 percent of respondents were client facing client serving, then look at the bottom of this table. We have client retention as a measly 1%. So it isn’t a priority, which is ironic because retention is. Sort of the priority, but nevermind.

So yeah, this is juxtaposition. Everyone’s looking at AI. So there’s your your edge. If you’re serving clients just improve your retention. You’re probably going to outperform a lot of people who are looking the opposite way.

FREDERICK VALLAEYS: Tell me I’m right. Yeah, exactly. I mean, Yeah, I think you’re absolutely right.

And that’s kind of the downside of a survey, right? Like, sometimes you can’t answer multiple things. And so the fact that client retention is sort of that last point doesn’t mean people don’t care. It just they think they think they’re going to lose their client because they’re not figuring out AI and automation.

So it’s almost the same answer, like you said, but I’m also a little bit. Not surprised, I guess, but it’s interesting to me that I think the push towards automation literally that’s been the thing for the last ever since mobile advertising stopped being the thing, which was like, what, now, 15, 20 years ago, it’s been about automation and that’s taken the form of like, Oh, what do I do with Google’s automated bid management?

Oh, what do I do when PMAX comes in? Oh, what do I do when generative AI is taking over? And it’s like every couple of years it’s a different flavor of what automation means So I can see why that’s still a top top of mind for people

ED LEAKE: Yeah. And to be fair, we, we did group it AI and automation. They could be two separate categories of vote, can’t they?

Cause AI is specifically AI. So automation could be running a script, which isn’t AI. So there is a, I think it’s a bit of overlap there, but but yeah. Maybe the next slide. Oh,

WIJNAND MEIJER: sorry. Yeah, just good to just good to mention for this one. This was this is kind of a summary of the open ended question, right?

So people could type in whatever they wanted. And then I had the fun job of trying to tag that in certain themes actually used quite a bit of GPT’s data analyst for that, but required quite a few prompts. And actually, it just GPT made this word cloud eventually, after me trying to get. Get it right for two hours.

So AI and automation was often mentioned by many people in one sentence. Sometimes it was just AI. So that’s why I kind of decided to make it one theme. And as on the right hand side, it’s, you know, people mentioned things like, you know, I need to implement it more. I make it, I need to make it more part of our process of our workflow, that kind of stuff.

FREDERICK VALLAEYS: Yeah. Kind of joking here, but yeah, maybe the AI was self aware and was like, Oh, maybe I should put myself at the top of the list of most important thing. Yeah. When you asked it to categorize, maybe, but I double checked, yeah, ask it if that’s what it was trying to do. But so that’s kind of what’s top of mind for people.

So we’re kind of rolling into that. Then we have the Google ads feature satisfaction. I thought that was one of the most interesting pieces of the last version of the survey. So I find it very fascinating to see what’s coming out this year. But yeah, let’s take a look at the question of how satisfied are you with the results and usefulness of a number of very specific things.

Features. So, yeah,

ED LEAKE: you obviously did your homework and looked at the previous one. I didn’t. So I, I don’t know the before and after of this, but I think this is an interesting juxtaposition of people wanting AI and automation, and yet the top three things or four things are anti. AI and automation. It’s the stuff I have control over.

Google ads editor. It’s a very manual controlling thing. Custom columns. That’s because I can control them. Scripts. I’m in control. Oh, look, exact match. You’re kind of in control. And then conversely, you’ve got, I can’t say it’s very small, but at the bottom, you’ve got auto apply recommend recommendations in the gutter.

Gemma recommendations. What else have we got? Demand gen optimization score. Broad’s got to be in there, surely. Yes. Broad match keywords. So yeah, it’s, it’s to me that says people are interested in and they want automation, but they’re not. Confident of the automation tools that Google has given them entirely.

Now, in fairness, we do have T ROAS near the top and probably T CPA. So the bidding engine is pretty solid and people should be happy with that. It’s saved them quite a bit of time, but there’s this. Interesting as I say, juxtaposition between what people are interested in and actually what Google’s giving them and how dissatisfied they appear to be with some of that automation.

FREDERICK VALLAEYS: Yeah. And that’s fascinating, right? I mean, sort of, what do you make of that? Like, is this as an industry, we’re just such control freaks.

WIJNAND MEIJER: Because we

FREDERICK VALLAEYS: came from a place where everything in Google was everything. And this is interesting to me. So Google ads. I mean, there was no conversion tracking. There were like broad match, didn’t even find typos or spelling variations.

So literally everything you have to do in the early days of when it was called AdWords was like, you’d have to manually figure out every single keyword, every single bit, every single ad. Right. And so we grew up in that. Whereas Facebook and social came in much later when AI and automation was much more developed.

And so it asked you to control fewer things and people who grew up with that. Probably are more okay with giving away control. So do you do you think this is? Kind of like a remaining artifact of the early days and over time, that’s going to go away and people are going to be okay with giving up more control.

Where is this all coming from? I mean,

ED LEAKE: if you look at the the distribution of experience, it was balanced to the higher side of experience. So more experienced people are more entrenched. Typically, I’m experienced, I’m entrenched, you know, I like a spreadsheet, I like a table. Less so an auto replot auto recommendation.

So there’s probably a little bit of entrenchment. And then I think there’s also expectations. I think AI is promising the world, but we’re yet to see it deliver. And I think once we get to a point where automation becomes truly dependable, then people will flip quite quickly because they’ll realize, Oh, This thing can do a lot of my work that I didn’t enjoy anyway.

I was kidding myself that I wanted to sit staring at my Google Ads account. This thing now does it. Oh, I can now work on my client retention, which I was ignoring before, which might be a bit more important. I think there’s also probably an edge. For people like yourself, Fred and Wynand, and me to some degree with the SAS products in finding automations that aren’t Google biased that people want to use.

So, you know, Google’s losing the battle it’s fighting in this field, I think, because their motivations are not always the same as the client. So for them to put together an automation suite that will fit everyone is, well, that’s, is that an impossible task? Possible. Probably. I said a lot of things there, so there you

FREDERICK VALLAEYS: go.

I worked at Google, right? Then. So one of the things that we discussed, I know if I mentioned it so, but one of the things that we considered relatively early on was, should we like split AdWords into multiple versions of AdWords for different verticals and make it easier in that way. And so like knowing that the decision was made, it’s going to be one platform with like multiple layers, like an onion where you, I kind of get deeper into it, but there’s not a separate version for travel for retail.

But that that also meant like you’re saying that, you know, there’s, you’re building this product for millions of advertisers. So it’s very hard to meet everyone’s needs at the same time. And that may lead to some dissatisfaction in pockets. But I think the other points here. Is that when we put the survey out, as it’s obviously going to PPC experts, people with a lot of years under their belt, as we, as we saw but, but, but if Google was asking, like, is Google ads working better today than it was 10 years ago for the average advertiser, who’s not that aware of like, what is a broad match keyword really do?

It’s probably working better today. Right? So the results on average are going to be better, but the experts who want to take that extra level of control and like. To whom 5 percent improvement in results does matter when you’re spending a million dollars a month they’re probably a little bit less satisfied with these things.

WIJNAND MEIJER: I want to still point out that maximize conversion value using target ROAS has won the popularity compared to, for example, manual CPC and performance max is has a higher satisfaction than standard shopping in this overview. So there’s, there’s areas where, you know, people have, you know accepted that that kind of black box automation and there’s areas where they haven’t, which is at the bottom there.

I do think some people also are not appreciating some of the features at the bottom, like at customizers or at variations, which are genuinely useful and it’s up to you how you use them. So I was surprised to see pretty low satisfaction scores there. So, yeah, there’s, there’s, yeah, it’s like gear cut everywhere.

ED LEAKE: Yeah. Medium as well. Sorry. Just as a very final thing, I won’t hang around on this, but yeah, applications of the medium. So people dissatisfied in YouTube

WIJNAND MEIJER: ads,

ED LEAKE: if you don’t have to use YouTube ads and you’re using them for the right type of audience and you’ve got the right type of creative, they’re brilliant, but they’re not for everyone.

And I think there’s a little bit of that there, but you’re, you are right. P P max is sort of middle of the table and the scorecard. I think the bidding stuff could be higher, quite frankly, I just thought it was very interesting that all the manual things were at the top. All

FREDERICK VALLAEYS: right. So yeah, performance max people seemed then relatively happy with sort of in that orange band.

So Mike, I know you’ve never talked about performance max as far as I know, but All the time, most popular topic. What was the joke one of you guys was saying?

MIKE RYAN: Yeah, I said that you could that you could burp the alphabet and say P max at the end and you would still get like a hundred likes on LinkedIn or wherever.

And it’s, there’s no P max fatigue yet. People are hungry for more content about P max, more information about P max. Because personally, sometimes I feel a bit fatigued by it, to be honest. Like I have to say, though, I like it better than smart shopping. If, if smart shopping had stuck around in the form that it was, Ooh, I don’t know.

I just found it so kind of boring to operate, boring to think about in a lot of ways. And I think that Pmax. Is a superior product to smart shopping. But you’re probably already reading ahead of me here, looking at some of these challenges that, that people face with performance max, because although interestingly we just saw in the last, as, as I know, and point out, we saw that satisfaction.

Is higher with performance max, but then with standard shopping at this point which I think is quite a revelation because you hear a lot of grumbling still. But that grumbling is directed at things here. Like we see that two thirds of respondents are challenged by the the lack of granular control and steering half one half of respondents are challenged by the ability to learn and understand how to improve performance and then just rounding out the top three nearly half You I have problems with the transparency about the.

The system’s decision making process. So that, that right there is a black box, kind of that, that lack of transparency into decision making classic black box challenge back at the top of the list, we were just talking about control so much. I don’t want to add too much more on there, but I think it becomes a question of yeah, how do you.

Use this better. How do you like, okay, I have switched this thing on. I’ve arrived at a certain level. What next? Where do I go from here? Or when things go wrong, why, how do I diagnose that? How do I troubleshoot that? What can I do about it? And the fact is that, you know, more than 80 percent of advertisers have adopted this technology.

Adoption went very fast. We all know the story because adoption of smart shopping was already high and then they just migrated it over. So they, they kind of immediately captured that market share or adoption level to put it differently. But in that context, How do you differentiate and yeah, this, this lack of granular control, like you might think of promotional controls, like modifiers that are no longer available.

You might also think about the very limited placement reporting, and there are workarounds like this, like scripts and so on. But it’s, it’s understandable that people have these concerns, in my opinion. I’m

WIJNAND MEIJER: curious, Mike, do you think Google is moving in the right direction? Cause they’re, they’re

MIKE RYAN: trying to improve this.

I definitely think so. As I said, my own satisfaction with performance max is higher than with smart shopping, just to, you know we have a sample size of 444 on this question, but my sample size of one is I’m, I’m happier than I used to be. And we’ve seen that they’ve, they have made kind of some concessions.

For example. With brand exclusions, this was a topic they didn’t really want to roll out negative keywords in the UI, like there are some, some ways to add negative keywords at a campaign level, a compromise that they were willing to live with. Was to then offer to take on this topic of brand traffic specifically and say, okay, here’s a feature that you can use for that brand exclusions.

Another example, search, search term reporting was not possible at all in smart shopping campaigns and they’ve created this consumer spotlight report that has it’s a little different than the classic search term report, but it’s a search term insights. And they, you know, they’ve invested some.

Some resources there to make that available to people. So I think that these are positive signs. You know, they hear us. They’re willing to make concessions. The thing to remember is that it will always be on their terms.

ED LEAKE: all right. Do you think that you say P max is better than smart shopping? Is that today? Or do you think P max at launch? Was better than smart shopping.

MIKE RYAN: It’s a great question. I, I think that it was better at launch. And I think that it has gotten better. So to talk about that, yes, there were complaints from people that it seemed like a half baked product when it launched.

There was odd things like no item ID reporting, for example. There was really some very basic things that you might expect that we’re kind of missing. But from the start there was more of a focus on audiences that I really appreciate compared to smart shopping. And I think, you know, it just structurally made more sense to me than, than smart shopping did.

And then, yeah, they’ve, they’ve evolved on it from there. So I, I think it was and is better than smart shopping.

FREDERICK VALLAEYS: And it’s kind of interesting too, because if you looked at the satisfaction. PMAX with feed, which is what you’re talking about, basically, that had a much higher satisfaction than PMAX without feed.

MIKE RYAN: Good, good point there. I’m letting my e commerce bias show and you know, PMAX for, for lead generation is a different topic. And I, I definitely, I think there’s, there for sure are more concerns and less satisfaction. They’re concerns about the kind of, the quality of the traffic that it delivers.

And I think that there’s more heavy lifting that you as an advertiser have to do to really guide the algorithm and make that make sense. And depending on your region, like CRM integrations, not as simple as, as it could be here in Europe, for example with privacy laws and So it’s, it’s definitely, definitely a topic that for e commerce though, with this product targeting rather than lead targeting, it works better.

ED LEAKE: Yeah. I think just to finish on that, I was just going to say on the lead gen thing, I’ve rattled on about this. I think PMax for lead gen is weak because of many different things. It’s a, if you can’t max out your search campaigns, I wouldn’t be considering P max. I think P max is a, it’s an experimental thing for lead gen.

So I think sometimes people misuse it and they get, they get results that are maybe cost conversion is lower than they expect and they’re happy, but actually the quality of the lead. It’s not there for them. So

FREDERICK VALLAEYS: that makes total sense. And I ran into a campaign yesterday where I saw that conversions were being reported for queries related to something free when that company wasn’t selling something free.

And so that kind of spoke to a mismatch, I think, in the way conversion. And then like, A lead was probably being put in as a conversion, but not the ultimate sale, right? And the more that people use automation, whether it be P max or automated bidding, and you kind of give it that incomplete conversion action in lead gen, it’s just going to keep giving you more and more of that.

And that leads to the low quality of leads that we’re talking about. Whereas I think in e commerce things are a little bit more clear, like some and a lot of, a lot of companies still don’t look at returns. That happened, right? But at least if they put in the basket and they checked it out, like that is a legitimate conversion right there.

It’s a little bit easier to report that at that moment than in a legion, which usually takes a lot longer to get to that final. So all

right. So we have a couple of other points. So satisfaction with AI. So AI being the top topic on people’s minds, like how satisfied are people with what AI is doing? Wijnand, do you want to walk us through this slide?

WIJNAND MEIJER: Yeah, Mike will tell a bit more, I think, but I can, I think it’s good to maybe mention what we mean with AI here that it is the, you know, the chat GPT, Gemini, whatever that type of external AI that people have been playing around with.

And we first asked, that’s not on the screen. How often do you use that even for all these activities that you see listed here? And if you said that you used it sometimes or often or maybe even always, then you got the follow up question just for the activities that you said that you use it. Sometimes we did the same thing, by the way, for the Google satisfaction.

And so we don’t ask people that never use something, how satisfied they are with that. Unless they’ve been lying, of course. But Then this is the, the results. And yeah, there are some interesting things there, but maybe I want to give the mic to Mike first to see what his thoughts are and then we can all comment to see what

MIKE RYAN: we think.

Yeah, I mean, what, what jumps out to me is that satisfaction actually seems a bit on the low side. Like the, the way to read this is that you know, let’s look at that. Top line, writing emails in green. So 71 percent of the people who are using this often are satisfied or very satisfied. And that’s actually the only activity on here, writing emails.

It’s the only one to reach above 70 percent and get in that green zone. And I, I think that’s, you know, not positive that most of these things are, are yellow or red among people who are using them on the More often. I also, I wonder if you’re using it more often and you’re, and you’re, and there’s a low satisfaction, I’m, I’m a little surprised by that.

Why do you continue to use it? Maybe they’re trying

WIJNAND MEIJER: to figure it

MIKE RYAN: out.

WIJNAND MEIJER: Exactly. I can give you a bit of background on that because if you look at the list of most popular ones, so just the ones that answer how often you use it, it looks pretty much the same order of things. So my interpretation of that is as the more people learn how to, how to use it, for example, for writing emails, the more satisfied they will get with the results and budget management was also at the bottom of how our AI was used, not many people, so we had to ask a very small group of people because then.

Not many use, use it for budget management. And probably they were just trying to figure it out and they’re not satisfied yet. I guess, or maybe they never will be. We don’t know. But it feels like that, it feels like it built, you have to build experience with it. You have to, you know, maybe learn the right prompts or whatever, and then you get more satisfied along the way.

And the top parts are just the things that people are, are, have been using the longest. Which makes sense, right? Writing stuff is, you know, is what comes to mind first. As much language

FREDERICK VALLAEYS: model, you would expect it to be good at writing, right? So those writing tasks like emails or ads, that makes a lot of sense.

And then I think there’s a little bit of a misexpectation to her. I just did a masterclass on. AI and PPC. And like the most common question I got was like, can you use it for forecasting? Can you use it to predict like average CPCs? And it’s like, no, that’s not what it does. Like it, unless you give it access to a database with those actual numbers and you get into maybe a code interpreter sort of implementation, that that’s not what it’s going to do.

If you ask it like, Hey, what’s the CPC on average for this keyword, it’s job is to like statistically predict what’s the next word in the sentence. And so it’s going to make it up. It’s going to have no actual meaning. And so if people believe it’s doing that, then, yeah, of course, they’re going to be disappointed with budget management or they understand it came to it.

So hence, again, it gets a little sport. Yeah, I think this is also quite an interesting one. Oh, go ahead.

ED LEAKE: Sorry, satellite bloody delay. You’re quite right, Fred. And I think this is why expectations and it, I think I said this in the previous slide, I just don’t think a lot of these tools are ready for primetime yet.

I still think if you’ve tested 20 AI products, you’ll probably find 19 that were crap, buggy, you won’t use ever again. I just don’t think we’re there yet for primetime. And also, will we even get there? Will a, will some, someone in the general public get to the point where they will have access to the level of data that will enable forecasting as an example from this list?

Will Google or Microsoft give them that kind of data? Who knows? So yeah, I think there’s a, there’s like Fred just said, there’s a mismatch, isn’t there, between expectations and the underlying technology.

FREDERICK VALLAEYS: And then to maybe wrap up on that point, but so the third most highly rated one is writing and editing scripts, and we’ll talk about scripts in a minute, a little bit more but I think once people start to understand That they can write a script or write Python code using code interpreter through GPT 4, and they can give it a very large data set.

And now they can actually start doing budget forecasting or predictions based off of larger data sets and statistical methods they may not have had in house capabilities for. that’s going to actually raise the satisfaction quite a bit. But again, it’s one of these things that just takes more time for people to explore, go to conferences, hear how other people have done it before they jump into it themselves.

And so I, I will predict that in the next version of the PPC survey we’re actually going to see much higher scores on statistical things when it comes to Gen AI.

ED LEAKE: I hope so. For the sake of all my AI stocks.

FREDERICK VALLAEYS: Hope only, those will be fine. Regardless. , what I’m more worried about is power and water. Those are running out because AI’s using all of them.

MIKE RYAN: Alright, so they just, they just, they just need to put them at the bottom of the ocean. Fred. I think they’ve already started doing that and then they, you don’t have to worry about water at least.

FREDERICK VALLAEYS: Okay, so by scuba diving gear? Yeah, that’s stock. Okay. So changing the level of trust in the AD platform.

So, maybe tee up the question and then I’ll talk a little bit about this.

WIJNAND MEIJER: Yeah, well, it’s a very simple question. We asked we, we listed out all the app platforms as you see them here. And we just asked like compared to a year ago. So this was a Q4 2023. So a couple of months ago, compared to a year ago, as your trust in Google ads and meta and all these platforms been considerably lower, slightly lower, about the same, slightly higher, considerably higher.

And we explained that my trust is not so much in trusting that you will get results from it. That could also maybe for some people mean trust, but we mean like the more pure form of trust, like earned by being transparent, you know keeping people’s best other people’s best interests in mind, the advertiser, the user, et cetera, that type of trust.

And well, I think the, most of the platforms won’t be happy when we publish this report and this image.

FREDERICK VALLAEYS: Right. And so The big one, Google ads is fairly negative as well as Twitter. So let’s talk about those two first, right? So I think the timing of when the survey went out was sort of around the same time that the Department of Justice case came against Google.

And there were some revelations around auction manipulation. And They were revelations. I don’t think these were things that weren’t public before. I think they just got a lot more exposure. And so people who didn’t pay attention to the fact that auctions don’t always work the way you think they might work might’ve been shocked and that reduced trust.

And then you put that together with, you know, Google’s continuous evolution of systems like broad match, which, you know, over time, I think they get better, but in like micro moments, they get worse. And there’s always like examples of, okay, this is where it messed up that also leads to sort of that decline in trust from Google.

And then over the past year, they’ve had a number of cases where there have been bugs in the system. And for all Google’s good intentions, like the system hasn’t done what it was meant to do. I think Google usually holds up to that, but again, I think that’s sort of a, and I think that’s the broader point is that there’s a mistrust in automation or there’s a lack of confidence in some of these automations that are always going to have the advertiser’s best interests at heart.

So I think that’s Google. And actually anyone have comments on Google before we jump into a Twitter? No, I

MIKE RYAN: can only second what he said. I mean, I was following that Department of Justice stuff topic pretty closely. And I guess the only thing I just. It’s interesting to me that it kind of blew over like and I, and I don’t know, I think it concerned, yeah, people really the nerds in the industry more than I don’t know how much of it really reached advertisers.

So as much as that probably did hurt the survey, I actually think Google. Kind of got away easy in the end.

ED LEAKE: It’s the it’s David versus Goliath, isn’t it? Google’s colossal. The problem is Goliath in this instance is not, I mean, he is fighting us, but he’s also giving us a little belly rub by giving us the best search engine for in intent driven customers and leads and so on.

It’s their best platform. You have to advertise on it. If you’re going to advertise. For most people so I think there’s that frustration there. It’s like i’ve got to pay the devil to do business I think that’s the frustration that a lot of people feel and I get that but it’s the best product Advertising and so you kind of better the devil, you know, isn’t it?

And you got to enjoy the belly rubs from time to time.

MIKE RYAN: As long as there’s some, like, you know, some treats as well, like bacon bits or something, then

ED LEAKE: you sound like a great date, Mike.

FREDERICK VALLAEYS: And on that note I know we’re not at the end of the show, but our friend, Mike does have to run to another meeting So, but thank you Mike, for really sharing a lot of what you think about BMAX and some some other thoughts on the survey. So we’ll let you go. Thanks very much. Learn more about SMEC and what you do.

Tell ’em where to find you.

MIKE RYAN: Yeah, sure. You can find us@smarter-ecommerce.com. You can find me on Twitter, LinkedIn with the handle Mike Ryan retail. I’m. Absolutely mortified that my final word was some weird thing about bacon bits, but these are decisions that I have to live with for the rest of my life.

Thanks so much for having me.

FREDERICK VALLAEYS: Bye. Bye. Thanks. Bye. Cheers. Bye. Okay. So let’s take a look at Twitter next. So I think Twitter is no surprise that that came in at a lower rating because the company was. Well, Twitter no longer is Twitter. It’s now X because Elon Musk bought it. It’s not been an advertiser friendly company.

It’s you know, becoming maybe more of a radical platform. So obviously from a brand safety perspective, that’s not going to earn you high points. I don’t agree with that

ED LEAKE: statement.

FREDERICK VALLAEYS: Okay.

ED LEAKE: Just, just to have a balanced point of view, because you are in California. I

FREDERICK VALLAEYS: didn’t think Twitter supported balanced point of view, but,

ED LEAKE: I don’t think it bloody does.

Well. Google controls the SERP. Facebook controls the message, so Twitter being a bit more open. Yeah, you’ve got the nutty extreme lefties and the extreme right, but actually if you look at the central viewpoints people are expressing themselves a bit more freely. Community notes is the best social media invention.

Elon Musk’s tweets get community noted if he says something incorrect. That’s a brilliant, is everything right there? No. Like I said, you can’t get impartial information from Google when you look at certain things, particularly the news. It’s incredibly biased, but I think what this shows us is that brilliant 50 50 split division of the left and the right.

Like, if we’re going to politicalize it, it’s like half the people hate it, half the people don’t, you know, don’t mind it or they like it. I blame American politics, Fred. It’s your fault. But yeah, it is going to be divisive. And you got to remember there is a big narrative towards Elon and for better or worse, you know, he, he has, he’s bit back.

He’s been pushed into a corner like a angry dog. He’s bit a few hands and they’re going for him. I hope he bites a few more hands because it’s quite entertaining. It is interesting. And

FREDERICK VALLAEYS: I think maybe it goes to the bigger point that we saw earlier, which is the advertisers who answered this survey. They clearly want control.

And I think when Twitter lacks the control and I agree with your point, I mean, so you can say anything on Twitter and there is correction if something’s wrong, but it’s not liberal or conservative. It’s for everyone, right? There’s no real restrictions anymore. But that also means there’s lack of control as an advertiser.

You don’t know you’re going to go into a place that sort of mimics what your brand is. And so maybe that’s kind of where that negativity comes from, that people just don’t trust that they can advertise and be shown alongside something that’s not going to be offensive to.

ED LEAKE: I think, you know what, I think it puts more pressure on the advertiser to do good advertising because I have seen adverts on there that get positive, a positive report from the, from the audience.

So, but I think it adds a bit of pressure. You’ve got to do something. It’s got, it’s going to entertain the crowd. It’s like you’re gladiator in the Roman arena on there a little bit. And I kind of, I don’t know. I like a little bit of risk. I kind of like, and I kind of don’t like it, but it’s, it, the whole thing’s been very politically politicized, unfortunately.

Yeah, we’ll see. We’ll see. Hey, the user growth’s up this year, which has surprised a lot of people. So we’ll see. I’m more active on there now, giving Ellen my 8 a month, because obviously he needs it. Very poor man. Very poor.

WIJNAND MEIJER: Yeah, one of the one of the things we don’t show in this presentation is the more experienced the PPC professionals are, the more likely it is they still use Twitter.

So it’s also becoming kind of a bit of an old school thing. Like the younger generations are sometimes don’t even have a Twitter account. And so it’s, that’s also interesting to see.

ED LEAKE: Are you twerking on TikTok? So meta ads is dead.

WIJNAND MEIJER: No TikTok for me.

FREDERICK VALLAEYS: Yeah. You on TikTok, Ed?

ED LEAKE: I’m too old. I’m 42 this

FREDERICK VALLAEYS: year. Oh my God.

Hey, so but, but Meta, so that’s where the grandpas and grandmas hang out on social media, Facebook. I don’t quite know why they have that slightly lower, Perception.

WIJNAND MEIJER: They always have this bad rep. I think that for years now, it’s not necessarily, I don’t think it’s a 2023 thing for meta. It’s kind of an ongoing thing, just a lower kind of likability factor compared to the other platforms.

I think it’s like more like a necessary no, some bad shit happened over the past years. And not everyone is a fan of the meta CEO.

ED LEAKE: Yeah. I think there’s a lot of that as well. Wine. And I think still a lot of bad. Blood, as there will be with Google and Twitter. I think it’d be very difficult for those, the three majors, Microsoft’s getting away with this because I think it’s, it’s the, the other three would struggle.

It doesn’t matter. Elon Musk could literally shit kittens and people would still hate him. So you, you can’t get around that. And I think the, we’re going to get the positive negative bias in it against the big three. Has Meta got better or worse? I don’t know. It’s still a good fundamentally. It’s still a good ad platform with very good targeting and a huge audience But yeah, it’s maturing.

Isn’t it the audience so That will evolve over time. Yeah,

FREDERICK VALLAEYS: and you’re right. I mean there’s the polarizing ceos like zuckerberg and musk and then there’s satya nadala Who is not really polarizing in any way? So it’s more like I mean and microsoft doesn’t Especially polarized. It’s just an old company that does interesting stuff and it’s part of most people’s work clothes and kind of is what it and I feel like Google is also in that space where you know, their seals have never been very polarizing and maybe that helps them get more of a neutral rating.

Okay, so that’s the platform thing. So let’s talk about scripts. This is the final thing, and then we’ll talk about the top 50 PPC survey a bit and the methodology behind that. But when we asked people, how many scripts do you run in accounts? The average was 3. 8. And hopefully those are 3. 8 scripts that I’ve written that you’ve copied into your account.

But yeah, so as a big scripts guy, that makes me happy to see that scripts had high satisfaction ratings. It obviously ranks high on the automation scale and a majority of people seem to be using them. Only about 19 percent of respondents said they do not use scripts. All. The other thing that I thought was interesting was when asked what automation and GPT is good at.

Writing scripts was that number three, I believe, on the list. To me, this is fascinating. And so kind of what I’ve been saying is in the age of AI and GPT, you no longer should ever say the answer. Like I can’t the answer should be I haven’t yet. Right. So if you’ve not been doing scripts because you thought you couldn’t because you can’t write code, like those days are over.

I’ve seen examples. I think it was Niels Roimans who used GPT 4. He went on a whiteboard. He sketched out what he needed a script to do. Kind of like the flow of decision making. He took a photo of that. He gave it to GPT 4. It understood the flow of the whiteboard sketch and it knew how to turn that into an ad script that mostly worked.

And when it had mistakes, you just give those mistakes back and it would fix them for you. So scripting is for everyone at this point. So That’s the potential of AI

ED LEAKE: that excites me. That, that’s the, sorry, Ryland. I always talk over

WIJNAND MEIJER: it. No worries. My surprise here was the pretty vast majority, pretty low number.

If you go on LinkedIn, it feels you have one to five new scripts going out every week and now people say and there are hundreds out there and now people say, well, on average, I need five, maybe 10 and, and great news for Optmyzr and true clicks and other tools. Cause you’re never going to catch everything and I’ll monitor anything with just five scripts.

But I just, by being so visible on, especially LinkedIn, I just expected. People to actually use it more and just have maybe dozens running because there’s most scripts do only one thing, right? And if you, if you want to monitor a lot of stuff or report a lot of stuff, you will probably need more than five, but I think,

ED LEAKE: The LinkedIn thing, one, and is that it’s it, we shouldn’t confuse the work.

With social engagement, if you, if you want to get some aware impressions and some likes and talk about or give away a script, a P max script or whatever, and there’s a lot, and I’ve commented about this just to annoy people and calling myself out. We all do it. Ah, grab that freebie, download it, wanted that, that PMAX script, you’ll never bloody use it.

And then another one comes up and you do the same. So I think there’s a lot of that. So I think LinkedIn skews the view of scripts a lot. It seems like everyone’s written a script, particularly for PMAX so it’s, yeah, like Mike said earlier, people don’t seem fatigued by PMAX yet. I don’t know how people sleep.

They’re probably dreaming of PMAX. And then there’s

FREDERICK VALLAEYS: not a good freebie. I think there’s not a good framework around scripts. So once you get into having 20 scripts, like literally five years ago, before I started Optmyzr, I had a lot of scripts and that turned into Optmyzr, but I needed to start writing scripts to check that the scripts were doing what they needed to do or to consolidate the output from the scripts.

And at some level it just stops making sense. There’s too many. Moving parts that you need to, like, keep running. And I think, like you said, it’s, it’s good for the three of us who all have a software of some sort that eventually we identified. This is a great script. It does something useful that people want.

Now let’s put it into a user interface. That’s actually. Easier to use, where there’s a big company that’s actually making sure it keeps running, it hands it off, right? Because I think people do want the easy button in their life. And so scripts feed these fantastic new ideas, new concepts. And a lot of the flagship tools and Optmyzr, by the way, they started as like massive complicated scripts that are not super easy to use.

So I, so long as people have kind of like a continuity of finding new scripts and, and deploying them. I’m, I’m pretty happy because it shows that we’re all using some more sophisticated things to better optimize our accounts.

Let’s go to the, to the list. All right. Let’s look at the top 50. No drum roll. The top 50 number one is

WIJNAND MEIJER: maybe many people are watching that are, have been nominated, so to speak just for this part, they were not listening so far. Now they’re like, okay, are they going to? I’m going to tell a bit more about this.

So let’s see how far we can get, but a bit of background info. Yeah, there was, if you’ve been around a couple of years in PPC, you know, that was a PPC hero list every year since 2012, a top 25, they stopped doing it and while preparing for this survey. I double check, like, are they ever going to do it again?

Cause if they’re not, this is just the same audience. It’s the same. Yeah. It’s just makes sense to combine the survey with the voting part of the, the influential list. So reached out to Daniel Gilbert of brain labs, double check, which now owns PPC hero and confirmed. No, we’re not going to do it anymore.

So. Go ahead. Fred and I had a chat with Jeff Allen from the Hennepin, got a bit of background, how they did it in the past. And whoa, whoa, spoiler. And so what we did, we downloaded the top hundred as many people know. And based on just their visibility in the PPC space and that generated a nice list of a hundred people, but you could vote for anyone you wanted.

You didn’t have to vote on any of these hundred. You could, everyone could vote on five people by the end of the survey. There was no ranking in those five people, just five votes, which was hard enough already because there’s many great people on that list. So many people had to make some tough choices there.

And so that’s the boring part. I think it’s cool that on the website, we made it a bit more interactive showing people like not just the names and the pictures, but you know, you can link to their. To their social media, to their podcast, YouTube channel, if they have one. So it gives you a feel for what they do.

Even books, if they’ve written one. Now, the tough part here is, you know, how do you objectively determine the ranking of the final ranking and, and for people that, you know, Told all their friends and family to vote for them. We found out about those votes, those surveys, and they were dismissed. They didn’t count the 1, 135 you saw at the beginning.

It was more like 1, 400. We had to clean up some mess there that people created. But just for the, for voting purposes, we can very easily spot a survey that is not serious and that people that have no clue what they’re talking about and just want to vote at the end. So those votes were not counted. And so every vote is a real vote by someone that is in the PPC industry, but votes in the end, maybe the next slide can show you that that’s kind of a screenshot of the.

The, the thing that can cost quite a bit of time. So I blurred the names here, but this is the top of the list. And I’m sure I’m not, I’m not sure how readable it is, but we don’t have to go through every detail. I just want people to understand that we’ve tried to be really. Balanced in our approach.

Okay, you have votes, you have followers on social media, you have engagement on social media we scrape that with something called Phantom Buster to, to have the data there. Then we need to do more to normalize everything, right? So someone with 20, 000 followers doesn’t necessarily get twice the weight as someone with 10, 000 followers.

You wouldn’t, maybe you would expect that, but that’s not a good way to do it because then you have outliers that just, you know, Messed everything up. So we had to take all these things into account to really, and then everything was normalized. Everything was weighted. So votes is 17, half percent in the end.

So even if you have, if you’ve got a lot of votes, it doesn’t necessarily mean you will end up high because the takeaway here is if you tick all the boxes, so the social media, the boats, the podcast, if you have one that helps, if you have a YouTube channel that’s popular, it definitely helps. If you have a newsletter, if you’ve written a book and if you’ve Did some speaking at conferences, you know, like SMX or, or popcorn or what have you, or that helps that was speaking engaged was 15%.

So the ad will never be number one because he doesn’t speak at conferences and maybe writing a book will help at maybe that will, but you know,

ED LEAKE: please everyone. I want to know, I mean, at the end of the day, I could write a shit book and and go to a conference and. Vomit on the stage and I’d get a score here, but at the end of the day that you can’t please everyone.

So I think you’ve got to take this as a little bit of fun for the industry as well. And you know, there’s gratification for people involved here, but it do not, anyone should not underestimate the work that’s gone into this and Wynand has done a lot of work. So it’s as fair as it can be. Yeah,

WIJNAND MEIJER: I think because you know People that are partners like Fred and Ed and Mike and some others are going to be on this list and as they should be and as everyone probably expects them to be so but that makes everyone be rightfully We need to be more transparent in how we did this.

These are all numbers you could argue the weightings, but we tried different weddings. It all adds up to more or less the same ranking. It was a top 25. We wanted to make it a top 50 because there’s a lot of great people that do lots of stuff between number 25 and 50. Well, you could even argue between 50 and a hundred as well, but that, that should be mentioned and that should deserve a spotlight.

So we’re gonna Release a top 50 together with the report. It will be very interesting to, to, yeah, for people watching the probably curious to see, but I’m hoping to take away here is that we really, yeah, dig into all these areas and if you want to be higher, if you’re someplace, if you’re on this list and you’re in place 50, you want to get higher yet, maybe now, you know, you know, Write a book, have a podcast, have a YouTube channel, speak at conferences, that kind of stuff helps, but maybe you don’t care about that.

Maybe you’re super happy with, you know, getting your business goals on, on, on, by using LinkedIn and your newsletter. And that’s also fine, of course, because these things are time consuming, all those books and, and, and podcasts and YouTube things. But that’s actually what we want to reward. Actually, the people spending the effort, any time and sharing their knowledge and that stuff.

That’s basically what this list should be about. So the, the more platforms you use to do that, the higher you should be on this list. So that’s the takeaway here. Yeah.

FREDERICK VALLAEYS: And kudos to Raynant again. A lot of thought has gone into this and and the other points. We’re the only other point I want to make is sometimes people don’t have the opportunity or whatever reason to be invited to a speaking event.

And since that is 15 percent of the total score, that certainly puts you behind the eight ball, right? So but I would invite anyone. To start tweeting, start writing on LinkedIn, right? These are the first places where it’s very democratic. Anyone can speak and then reach out PPC town. How like we love bringing in new voices and giving you an opportunity.

And and you know, the more of these things you can do and build towards. Oh, my God, that person really knows what’s going on because I’m not that active in accounts anymore, right? Like, and I’d love talking to people who are because those are the ones that come with the legitimately cool new ideas. And so I’m, I’m ready to give you a platform to build towards being at a conference or to write for search engine line because you’ve gone through PPC town hall as one of the steps.

On that journey, right? So I think all of us are here to give opportunities and democratize this and make sure that anyone can be on this list and they want to be.

WIJNAND MEIJER: Yeah, that’s also the 1 of the things behind the top 100. The top 100 is a longer list where there’s a lot of maybe some. Newer talent or newer names or what peeps hero used to call, I think rising stars.

Right. So let’s also try to find those as soon as possible so that, you know, conference organizers could go to ppcsurvey. com and watch, look at the top hundred, you know, quickly click to their content and invite those people that are maybe not that Well, not yet, but have potential to, to become.

ED LEAKE: And the final thing on this as well.

If you’re happy, if you’re watching this and you’re happy, don’t feel the pressure to do any of this. It’s at the end of the day, it’s a list doing, doing what we do is it’s. It’s pressure. I don’t enjoy recording videos and stuff. I know it’s made me money. It’s made me success. Looks like it. Hey. It

WIJNAND MEIJER: looks like you do.

ED LEAKE: It’s stressful. You enjoy it? Not necessarily. I don’t like being in the limelight. This is why I don’t do conferences. I do get invited, which is very kind of people. And if you watch this and you’ve invited me, thank you, but don’t take it personally. I’m an introvert. In certain ways. So and for people out there, like if you’re introverted and you’re looking at this going, this is stressing me out thinking about this, don’t worry about it because you don’t need to be successful to be on this list.

I know I’m on the list somewhere. I mean, I rigged the votes. I mean,

don’t worry about it. Like if you’re happy, be happy. Don’t worry about the, this is just, you know, cherry on the cake. Yeah.

FREDERICK VALLAEYS: And I think that’s a fantastic place where we, I think we can end it here. If you’re happy. Stay happy, be happy, do what you love. And again, this is why the three of us do what we do.

We love PPC. We love finding solutions, helping people, finding new strategies, and this PPC survey, thanks again to Venant for putting it together and being the spearhead behind that. Yeah, we were super happy to sponsor it. But again, I do want to acknowledge the tremendous amount of work that you did and leading many people to to contribute.

But it was, I think, your effort, and you should be recognized for that. So thank you. Again, the survey will be available. So do take a look at that. It’s going to give you great insights, whether you’re an agency, an in house team, it’s going to show you the opportunities that exist, what your clients might want more of, what your advertisers are going to want more of.

So again, thank you for watching. If you’ve enjoyed this content and you want to see cool people like Ed, Mike, and Wijnand again, subscribe with that button right there at the bottom. You can find us on all the podcast channels and we’re on YouTube and LinkedIn for the video content. And if anyone needs a good PPC tool, there’s Optmyzr.

There’s TrueClicks and AdEvolver and the AdEvolver. Just

ED LEAKE: buy God Tier Ads. God Tier Ads, everyone. It’s cheap, it’s cheap. And it’s the best thing ever. It’s a one

FREDERICK VALLAEYS: time purchase.

So anyway, thank you both for being here. I will see you for the next one.