Responsive Search Ads: Tips, Tricks, and Best Practices

Episode Description

Expanded Text Ads out, #ResponsiveSearchAds in.

RSAs will be the only type of text ads you can create in #GoogleAds starting July 1, 2022. And there’s going to be a pretty big shift in how #PPC marketers approach text ads.

Learn from two PPC experts with long-standing track records and significant experience building managing RSAs.

This panel covers:

• How RSAs have done compared to ETAs so far
• How pinning certain components affects RSA performance
• Tips, tricks, and best practices for running better RSAs

Episode Takeaways

Transition to RSAs: RSAs are becoming the standard ad format in Google Ads, replacing Expanded Text Ads (ETAs). Advertisers need to adjust to the RSA format which relies on providing multiple headlines and descriptions for Google’s automation to assemble the most relevant ad for each query.

Impact of RSAs on Ad Delivery: RSAs typically receive a higher share of impressions compared to ETAs within the same ad group. Google’s algorithm tends to favor RSAs due to their flexibility in ad assembly, which can potentially lead to more effective ad presentations based on the search context.

Pinning in RSAs: Pinning specific components in an RSA can affect performance metrics such as conversion rate and cost per click. While pinning offers control over ad content, it may reduce the ad’s overall effectiveness according to Google’s preferred practices for RSAs.

RSA Optimization Strategies: Advertisers should consider adopting a thematic approach in RSAs, where different RSAs in an ad group emphasize different aspects such as price, features, or user benefits. This can help identify which themes perform best and guide further optimization.

The Role of Automation and Machine Learning: Google’s machine learning algorithms play a significant role in determining the success of RSAs. These algorithms optimize ad delivery in real-time, making it crucial for advertisers to align their RSA strategies with Google’s automation capabilities.

Future of RSAs and Ad Testing: With RSAs set to become the only option for new ads in Google Ads, advertisers should prepare for a shift in how ad testing and optimization are conducted. The traditional A/B testing model will evolve as RSAs require different approaches to test and refine ad components effectively.

Implications for Advertisers: The shift to RSAs represents a significant change in how ads are managed on Google Ads. Advertisers must adapt to using automation more effectively and embrace the complexities of managing multiple ad components within RSAs to maintain and improve ad performance.

Episode Transcript

Frederick Vallaeys: Hello and welcome to another episode of PPC Town Hall. My name is Fred Vallaeys. I’m your host, and I’m also the co founder and CEO of Optmyzr. So hot topics in PPC. Well, let’s see, automation, performance max, RSAs. So let’s talk about one of these. This week, we’re going to talk about RSAs, Responsive Search Ads.

As you all know, Is the ad format that’s going to become the standard ad text format in Google ads. It’s replacing the long loved expanded text ad. And before that regular text ad, but basically what’s happening is Google is saying, you no longer have to write a fully qualified ad text with a bunch of headlines and a bunch of descriptions.

Instead, just give Google. The components, give them a bunch of headlines, a bunch of descriptions, a bunch of calls to action and Google’s automation. We’ll put it together based on what it thinks is going to be the best ad to serve for that specific auction, that specific search. So there’s a pretty big shift that’s happening and we’ve got some great experts with us today to talk about what you would do as the shift happens to RSAs and we, we really have to start thinking differently when About how we manage messaging and add text on Google.

So I’m really excited about this episode. So let’s get rolling with PPC Town Hall

All right, our two guests this week are Ed and Julie welcome to the show

Julie Friedman Bacchini: thanks for having me

Ed Leake: Yeah,

Frederick Vallaeys: thanks for coming back julio we’ll start with you so Let’s do a quick introduction to who you are what you do and what you know about rsas

Julie Friedman Bacchini: Okay. I’m Julie Friedman Bacchini and I have sort of dual roles in the world of PPC.

I have my own consultancy, Neptune Moon. I’ve been in paid search since literally the beginning. So I’ve seen it all. You know, this is yet another change that, that is happening. And I also manage PPC chat on, on Twitter. So I am. Managing all of the weekly chats and trying to be a source of the latest information gather.

It’s hard to keep up with everything. So I do my best every week to try to gather information and make sure people can easily find what they need to keep up with what’s going on in the ever changing world of PPC.

Frederick Vallaeys: Yeah, and thank you for doing PPC chat. We’re big fans here. It’s just a different format to get your your news basically and then have a great discussion around it So i’m a fan of search engine land.

I’m a fan of PPC town hall if you prefer video But PPCat PPC chat is awesome because it’s just on twitter and even if you don’t have time when it’s live and julie, it’s usually what wednesdays at 9 a. m pacific

Julie Friedman Bacchini: So we do, we have two chats per week now. One is the traditional Twitter based chat and that’s at 12 Eastern on Tuesdays.

And then at 12 o’clock Eastern on Thursdays, we have been doing an audio version in Twitter spaces of typically the same topic that we talked about on, on Tuesday of that week.

Frederick Vallaeys: Nice. So yeah, check those out. Ed, first time we’re on the show, it’s great to have you on, so tell us a little bit about who you are, what you do, and what you know about RSAs.

Ed Leake: So, yeah, hi, I’m Ed, thanks for having me on. And so I’ve been an agency owner for 12 years and my side project is AdEvolver, which is a Google ads optimization tool not sure if i’m allowed to mention this fred and also just keep

Frederick Vallaeys: The Optmyzr in the same sentence. Yeah, you

Ed Leake: can edit this bit out.

Frederick Vallaeys: There’s many great tools out there, right? So Here you go. Let’s let’s use them That’s not a problem at all.

Ed Leake: And, and then to keep yourself busy. I also started God tier ads about a year, a year or so ago, which is a Google ads training framework and product, that sort of thing. So.

Frederick Vallaeys: So you’re basically saying you don’t do so much just three times

Ed Leake: I don’t sleep.

I don’t have kids though. So i’ve got it. I i’ve got an excuse to work, unfortunately That does help

Frederick Vallaeys: so yeah, I mean let’s talk a little bit about rsa’s then right? So I think maybe we’ll start with what is happening So I talked about how this is becoming the new ad format latest news we have from google is that The end of Q2 is the last day that you can still put in traditional text ads.

These are called ETAs. ETAs are expanded text ads because before that they were not expanded. So ETA is just like a regular ad. But basically end of Q2 and then starting in Q3, first day of Q3, like I think you can still pause and enable ETAs. You can no longer make edits. You can no longer make a new one.

So that’s kind of the timeline we’re working with now How aggressive have both of you been or your customers with kind of this transition

julie ladies first? Oh, why thank you I have been working with rsas for for quite a while because it’s so It’s such a different it feels so different when you’re creating, you know, because it’s, it’s so different from how we’ve done ads up until this point. Even, you know, the regular text ads and then the expanded text ads where you had more characters to work with and you know, the extra headlines and that kind of thing.

Julie Friedman Bacchini: RSAs are just, you know, a totally different animal. And so when you’re used to writing, and I’ve been doing this for a long time. So when you’re used to writing the more traditional ads, you’re used to coming up with your ideas for testing, like, Oh, what if we test this offer against this? Or we move this in this position and whatnot.

It’s really different when you start to create. The, the RSA is because you’re putting in so many elements into a single, into a single ad. So, you know, you’re like, my God, I have to come up with 10 headlines. You know, I have to come up with four different descriptions. It’s just, it’s a very different way of thinking in a different process that you have to go through.

So I’ve been working with them for a while now, and knowing that this. Date was coming where you wouldn’t even have the option to create new ones. I’ve been working harder in them and I know we’re going to get into this later, but you know, once you start using RSAs in your ad groups your ETAs. tend to serve a whole lot.

So there’s that whole dynamic, you know, that you start to deal with as well.

Ed Leake: Yeah. I mean, pretty much the same as as me, as us, we essentially adopted them as soon as they were available because Fred shared at the start of this call, actually, but sorry to, to do the thing of sharing information that we haven’t recorded, but what was it?

17 percent of people haven’t tried an RSA yet. So the argument is that they’re behind. So we always test new features as soon as they come out, to be honest with you. And it’s normally an easy sell to, to clients anyway, because New things normally mean you get a little bit of an edge, but yeah with julie It’s it’s rsa is a different mindset because it’s less about the ab You know that you’ve got one version versus another it’s more about making.

The struggle of writing 15 Headlines that make sense. Which is why you shouldn’t write 15 headlines. Probably. So I mean, our approach to the, to the RSA situation over time was essentially treat it like two ets. So you have to do twice the work, but compress your, your two ETS down to a, a single RSA.

That’s the way I sold it to the team anyway, to make it sound like it’s it’s no more work to do an RSA.

Frederick Vallaeys: Yeah, exactly. And so I think when Google launches new stuff we don’t always jump in feed first because there are plenty of things that they launch and they just go to advertisers and they say, Hey, can you please, please, please try this?

Because they’re honestly just trying to see if this is any good. In the case of RSAs, I guess it was pretty clear relatively early on that it was going to be a winner. For Google and I think we’re going to push it through. Right. But but always be a little bit cautious, I suppose. Like you don’t want to be the guinea pig in the alpha necessarily, but once it comes to a beta stage, yeah.

I tend to agree, like jump in because being early on may give you some benefits. And, and even. Even if you don’t get benefits. So you see, there’s this whole benefit, right? But when Google introduces something new, like you’re the only ad on the page doing that new thing, and even if you do it horribly, like it looks different and you’re still going to get more clicks because people are like, Whoa, what’s that?

Like there’s four lines of something or there’s a little image next to it. So they just gravitate towards it. Right. But then even the the early learnings that you have in those extra couple of months that you’ve sort of figured out, what’s the strategy, what’s the best process here can be really, really beneficial.

Yeah let me quickly share so ed and then we’ll go back to you but so no carry

Ed Leake: on don’t worry about me

Frederick Vallaeys: I do worry about you. You’re my guest but you you brought it up right so the the rsa study that we did at Optmyzr So we’ve done two of them. We did it once for smx Next in 2020 and then we did it again in smx next 2021 But we ran through a bunch of ads millions and millions of ads that we run through the Optmyzr system.

And we looked at how many advertisers had not yet tried RSAs at all. Last year, that was at about 25%. This year, that’s down to about 17%, but that’s still kind of a shocking number, like you said, right? So 17 people, given that this is going to go away in about four months, have still not experimented with the new ad format, what’s also fascinating is that Of those who have tried it, only a very tiny portion, so 0.

2%, tried RSAs and then stopped all RSAs. So what that kind of tells me, and you’re welcome to take a different angle on this, but it kind of tells me that when you turn on RSAs, they seem to do something good enough that people want to stick with it. You think that’s an okay read or you think it’s just that people are like, well, this is the thing I’m going to have to deal with, so I might as well bite the bullet and go with it.

Ed Leake: I think it’s all, all of the above, isn’t it? It’s easier as well, to a certain degree. You can be, RSAs are going to, going to create a few lazy account managers. Dare I say it, and I know a lot, watch this this stream. So, but that’s opportunity for, for other people that aren’t so lazy. No offense.

I’m kind of curious as far as the lazy account manager. So what was both of your strategy in the beginning? This is to say that a new client comes to you and they haven’t done rsas Like would you go and write entirely new ad units or would you just do the conversion and take? their existing etas and turn them into Like chunk them out into headline pieces and description pieces and put them in the right place in the rsa right now So for yeah, so if one of those 17 and a half percent turned up, knocked on the door and said we don’t have any RSAs take their best ETAs.

Hopefully they’ve got a good years, years data and more than two ETAs and take the best components and create an RSA. I don’t want to jump ahead cause now we’re going to talk about optimization and stuff, but there are. There are some sweet spots as well for the amount of headlines and that sort of thing, but yeah, easy street.

And also I just want to say that when I said lazy, by the way if I, I don’t want to offend anyone, if they’re really good at ad copy and really smart, then be lazy because you could create an awesome RSA and get away with it for some time, probably. So.

Julie Friedman Bacchini: Well, I mean, RSAs are definitely testing of ads as we have historically known it.

It isn’t just not going to exist. Anymore in the world of RSA, right? Like historically, up until this point, when you wanted to kind of test different things and figure out maybe what would be more successful in your ads, you would do ab tests between expanded text ads and then you would, you would know the variable that you were testing, hopefully

You had a testing play of like what you were doing. You weren’t just kinda like randomly doing things, but if you had any method to what you were doing as far as what you were testing, it was pretty clear. you know, where you were going and then you could record those results and then try to build, build off of that.

The way that RSAs function are completely different, like that traditional mindset and that traditional method of I’m going to test headline a against headline B, right? Like everything else in the ad is going to be the same, but I want to see what happens if we have like the different headline. You can’t do that really.

I mean, theoretically, I guess you could do that with, with pinning of things. That’s a whole piece I’m sure we’re going to, we’re going to get into, but like just the whole way that you think about RSAs and how you use them and what kind of information you can glean from them. It’s, it’s totally new territory.

Frederick Vallaeys: It is. I have this fascinating example that I always give, which is you have an ad group and then the ad group has 10 keywords. Okay. And now you have an A, B test. But you actually decide to make the B version the same as the A version, but you just make it as a new ad and you see what happens. And then traditional A B testing, where you’re usually looking for what is the best headline, you will often actually find that the A A test has a winner and a loser.

It’s like, it doesn’t make sense. It’s the same ad, right? But the thing that people didn’t forget as well, you had 10 keywords and this ad group is running for all those 10 keywords. And by the way, these keywords might be broad matches. So the thing that the person actually typed in wasn’t that keyword.

It was some fairly out there variation because broad matches we know is not that restrictive. Right. And so, and then it’s a different audience. It’s a different time of day. Like there’s a different geography they’re coming in from. They typed in a different query. And they saw an AA test and one of the ads starts winning, right?

So then the question is, was it really the ad that was driving that change? Or was it the fact that other circumstances with that keyword? And clearly it’s the second, but that’s a mistake people make. And so that’s where I think you have to be careful. And RSAs are a bit better because if they do their job as Google promises it, they should figure out what are those circumstances around each search and query, and then put together the right ad for that person.

So that even if you’re not doing the AAB testing, they kind of do it for you.

Ed Leake: Yeah, but I agree with that but the example of ab testing with 10 broads Is that’s a setup issue as well. And, you know, don’t get me wrong. A lot of people do it wrong and don’t have a controlled test, but yeah, I agree. And people misread them.

And as a result of that, you know, you’ve got 10, 000 queries driving two ads off the back of a dozen keywords. And then within seven days, pick a winning ad. It wasn’t really the winner. And as Julie said, it’s, it’s not that straightforward anymore with RSAs, is it? But, but also to touch on what Julie said, we’re going to lose that compounding benefit of doing proper A B tests.

The, the trial and error of A B tests, you know, quite a strict, stringent A B test routine over a period of time. Does give incremental value to an account. We’re going to lose that. So I’m interested to see for the people that are quite strict with AB testing, how that will that compounding performance will go away potentially, unless the machine learning is that good that this is all mute and we just stick a load of ads in and walk away.

Frederick Vallaeys: So given that there’s this compounded benefit of continuous A B testing obviously with RSAs, you can still do pinning, right? So you could technically make the equivalent of an ETA by pinning everything to a certain position. Google says, well, you lose the benefit of the machine learning doing its thing, but, and you would argue you get the benefit back of the A B testing.

So, and I guess it’s like how good and dedicated are you, and then you can do better than the machine, or is there a happy medium?

Ed Leake: I think as I think analytical people really struggle with ad copy and ad writing. And I think it’s the I’ve looked at God knows hundreds, maybe thousands of accounts. I don’t know.

I’ve lost count. And I think it’s the single weakness of, of most PPC managers is the, is the ad copy. So can they beat the machine? Probably not. Over the long run. So I’m defending Google now and the machine, so I’ve, hold on, I’ve offended PPC managers and now, oh God do no evil. Yeah, so I think in fact that is one of the angles that a PPC manager, particularly freelancers and small agencies can take is to team up with really good copywriters and admit that it’s not their strength.

And if you’re going to fill stuff, you know, if you’re going to fill an RSA, make it worthwhile. I’m going off on a tangent. So,

Frederick Vallaeys: well, yeah, let’s hear from you, Julie. How do you feel about that? Like so you work with a number of accounts. How many people do you work with?

Julie Friedman Bacchini: Right now, Neptune moon is just me.

It’s been various sizes over the years, but currently in you know, pandemic world. It’s just me.

Frederick Vallaeys: No, but so I mean, like yours, like how important is the ad testing? And what do you think of Ed’s point? Like, because I do agree, like we tend to be so analytical. And the reason that I got into PPC was more my technical side and my analytical side, more so than being a marketer or a great messenger. How do you feel about that?

Julie Friedman Bacchini: So I come from more of a creative background. So I was a marketing person, but I also did design. So I have more of like a, I did PR and marketing and design. So I have more of that writing background. So for me, I like writing the ads. Like I don’t, that, that’s not a challenging piece for, for me.

That’s well within my my particular wheelhouse. But I think one of the challenges, you know, this is, this is what happens a lot with stuff with Google. They’re very they have a particular type of advertiser in mind when they. Move forward in different directions. And then everyone else kind of has to figure out how to work within the prayer, the parameters of what ends up happening.

So I think I I’m hopeful that because RSAs in the grand scheme of things are relatively new, that as it becomes the only option, some things will evolve. So we, we talked a little bit about this on the PPC chat hashtag this, this, and within the last week, we were talking about how there are. Quite a few instances in industries where you have to pin stuff, like from a compliance standpoint, like not every advertiser in every industry is on even footing as far as how flexible you can be in what happens in your, in your ad copy.

And I think RSAs are not equipped to deal with that properly right now. I hope that that’s something that is being thought about inside of Google because right now the big push is for, you know, go, go broad match plus RSA plus smart bidding, right? That’s their golden triangle that they talked about and they’re welcome to 2022.

Presentation from, from last week and that’s all well and good, but you know, there are quite a few industries and then there are other businesses who feel strongly like, I want to make sure that my business name, for example, is in that first headline. So I don’t feel like RSAs right now do a great job with that.

They clearly want you to not have anything pinned. Like the preference is definitely, I’m running an experiment right now in a couple of my accounts where I’m running the exact same ad where I have pinned some of the assets and I have everything else unpinned. And it’s really preferring the unpinned ad.

So I think there’s, there’s definitely some things that I’m keeping my eye on as far as like, you know, things that you might want to adopt, right? Because it’s like, okay, well, Google is telling you this is where it’s going. And we all know that you can’t swim upstream against Google forever, right? It just, it’s futile.

So you have to figure out how to work within the parameters and with the system that, that Google is going to provide for you. But I still have some questions and I hope that these are things that are, you know, kind of like on, on the board over at Google, where they’re figuring out like, Hey, we might want to, you know, we might want to think about this, or this is something that is going to affect a certain percentage of advertisers.

So that all kind of remains to be, remains to be seen. So those are some holes that I’m seeing right now.

Frederick Vallaeys: Yeah, and let’s get into the tactics a little bit. I know you wanted to get into those two and the strategies but before we do like on the pinning topic that Julie brought up. So part of our study looked at the impact of pinning.

So you can see the charts on the screen. And for those of you listening, not watching basically, if you pin Your conversion rate goes up slightly, but your cost also goes up. So your cost per click is higher. Your cost per conversion is higher. CTR is lower, right? So, and that’s kind of the whole premise is that Google believes that if you let them figure out how to make the ad, it’s going to be more relevant, hence have a higher click through rate, right?

But then it might be the wrong message. So maybe that’s why the conversion rate gets slightly worse. And then I think the cost per click is heavily associated with the CTR. That’s the ad rank, the quality score components, right? If you have lower CTR, you just have to pay more to maintain that same position.

So that’s why the cost goes up. So, so from that perspective yeah, spinning, spinning helps you with your metrics to some degree, but it’s very counter to what Google wants you to do. Of course, if you’re in an industry where you have to do it, then you have no choice.

Ed Leake: Sorry Fred, to interrupt. Did you do, multi pinning versus single pinning.

Frederick Vallaeys: We

Ed Leake: did where is that? Well, we did multi versus single pinning as well. Sorry, because I think that that would be interesting because yeah, I definitely see that pinning impacts the impression share, particularly top of page rate as well. Which again, you know, that’s Google being, I’m not allowed to swear, am I?

Googley, they’re being Googley. Yeah, it’s, it, it screws over found the word that didn’t have an FC or B in it, screws over the people that can’t, that have very strict brand guidelines that Julie was just talking about. Cause we found a single pin is quite damaging to impression share, not necessary to performance metrics.

I’m just trying to look at the screen. I mean, if you took a few outliers there, really conversion rates, I mean, cost per click, look at that bumps, but the conversion metrics look similar ish for a pin, but the, I mean, they hurt click through rate and they bump CPC, so essentially you’re losing the auction if you pin.

So Google’s forcing your hand. It’s like a. Another layer to quality scores.

Frederick Vallaeys: So one interesting thing about pinning and this is a tactic people should definitely try is in the beginning of RSAs. You could pin a single thing to a single position so you could be like this needs to be my headline one and maybe that Was your brand whatever right?

But then over time, I don’t think it really announced it kind of like snuck in but now you can pin multiple variations to the same position So one technique that seems to make sense to me is I want my headline to be something about my brand Exactly how I procreate my brand. I don’t know. Is it my domain name?

Is it my company name? I don’t know, but I’m going to have three variations as headlines that are something to do with my brand. I’m going to pin all of those to position one. And that’s what this chart on the screen shows is that if you do no pinning, then Google prefers your app because they have the most Liberty to do whatever.

If you pin a single thing to a single position, Google doesn’t like it because you’re basically going back to kind of an ETA, very. Highly defined. If you do the thing where you’ve been multiple things to one position, then the results do improve. Now it’s kind of like that happy medium. Google’s happier because they have flexibility.

You’re happier because you got some control. So that seems to be kind of the way to go. If you feel like you want more control, does that make sense? All right. And while, since we’re talking about tactics I mean, and Julie, you were talking to about once you start RSAs, your ETAs, you know, Get very little love from Google, their impressions go way down. Do you want to talk about that a little bit more about yourself?

Julie Friedman Bacchini: Yeah, I, so I’ve certainly seen it in my, in my own accounts that once you put an RSA into your ad group it gets the lion’s share of the impressions almost right away.

I mean, I feel like even as a predecessor to this. Before RSAs got the amount of preference that they get now, even Google had been picking the the quote unquote winning ETA almost from go for probably the last two years. Like it’s been really fascinating how They’ve been kind of like in the background, moving us towards this idea of we’re, we’re going to pick, like, you’re going to tell us some stuff, but like, we’re going to pick what the best ad is.

So even if you had all your settings and you were just using ETAs where theoretically you wanted to have your ETAs be able to kind of battle it out a little bit. Google has been choosing a winner like fast. And you will find that one of your ETAs even was getting the lion’s share of impressions. So it’s been difficult to even have impressions spread out over multiple ad variations.

But now if you put the RSA in a group and you have ETAs, Forget it. Your ETAs are occasionally, if you have a strong performing ETA, it will still get some, I have a couple of ETAs that are still getting decent impression share, but they said again, in that, in that welcome to 2022 presentation, they were talking about how once ETAs are deprecated.

That if you continue to run ETAs, they will quote unquote lose value in the same way that if you are still running broad match modified keywords, now they have also quote unquote lost value. So, you know, they’re very much kind of. telling you very clearly, like you can keep doing it, but I wouldn’t recommend it because we’re, you know, we’re, we’re just, we’re not gonna, we’re not gonna show it.

It’s not going to have the value for you, you know, that, that the RSA, which they want you to do is, is going to have.

Frederick Vallaeys: Yeah. Interesting. And so part of the study that we did, As far as like RSA versus ETA and the difference in impression volume. So to us, the biggest insight was literally how many more impressions you can drive by having an RSA.

And so we did comparisons where it was an ad group and an RSA plus an ETA. It was four to five times as many impressions per ad going to the RSA ads.

Ed Leake: And it’s not just that Fred, like we, so I pulled end of last year and I don’t know if you’ve done this, if you’ve got similar data. So I was just looking at the data we pulled.

I can’t remember how many accounts it was. I know it was like 8 billion impressions, 17 percent increase in top page rate for RSAs. So not only and CPCs were flat. So not only is Google biasing the impression share to an RSA. You’re getting a higher ad rank, essentially. So it really is rewarding RSAs more.

That was last year. I haven’t got the year before. I don’t know if you saw the same, but to me, that’s a big look

Frederick Vallaeys: at the top of the page. But, and, but that’s the promise of RSAs, right? Is Google says we can show a more relevant ad. Based on what we know for the auction. And then yes, naturally you’re going to have a higher ad rank because it’s more relevant to ads.

So you’re predicted CTR is higher. And we can see that in the stats where we look at CTRs of RSA versus ETA. And so even with the same bid, you’re going to score higher. You’re going to take more of those top impressions. But then we did a study on this, not two years ago. And it was basically look at your keywords and look at when they serve with an ETA versus an RSA and start to understand the incrementality portion of that, and like, let’s see how many.

Queries search terms exist now that you have RSAs that didn’t exist in your account before. And that’s really the fascinating thing is that searches that Google before said your expanded text that is simply not good enough to qualify to show an ad. All of a sudden with an RSA, they’ve kind of like put together some ad that for some reason now is good enough. And, and, and this year, and it’s not the only driver of this, but this year we are seeing that 4X more impressions. And then people. Sometimes complainers are like, well, but, and even if you look at our stats, like you get 10 to 20 percent worse conversion rate from an RSA. But if you get five times the impressions and you’re controlling your bids in a smart way.

Like five times more impressions 10 less conversion rate Well, that’s still a hell of a lot more conversions at the end of the day than before Yeah,

Ed Leake: if your business has got fixed costs, definitely. I mean it makes a lot of sense to scale incrementally and Take those additional that additional volume and there’s a lot of businesses that are volume play, you know insurance and finances and stuff I think it hurts potentially Sort of small to mid tier retailers a bit more because they might get more volume, but the row house You Well, it’s kind of tends to dip, doesn’t it?

And some of the conversion metrics of RSA, but excuse me, but then they got shopping. So you can’t have it. It should

Frederick Vallaeys: be the main thing for them anyway. Right. Yeah. And I know people are very curious to on a performance max. So since we’re talking about like shopping and automation and all these different efforts, did you guys have any thoughts on.

Pmax that you can share with our viewers. I know it’s not the topic so it’s totally fine if you don’t want to talk about it

Let’s skip that one It is

Ed Leake: what it is. It is what it is. It’s blancmange advertising, isn’t it? It’s Look google is heading towards a Or that the target is you give me a url you give me a budget and you bugger off And we do everything else for you. That’s Google’s end game. And is it five years away?

Is it 10? Who knows? But it’s understandable because it cuts out all the, the drift in the middle, any issues that, you know and performance max is a bit of a test of that ideology, isn’t it? But you still have to create your, your ads.

Frederick Vallaeys: Exactly. And I’ll, I’ll do a soft list for promotion here, but my book came out recently, so this is my second book.

Unlevel the playing field. And it’s based on that whole premise that everybody’s basically given the same automation tools from Google. And for the most part, being told to bugger off, like you said. But what if you don’t want to bugger off? Well, what if you make a living at this? Right? Julia and Ed plus your clients expect you to be the difference.

So how do you unlevel that playing field back in your favor? And you’re right. I mean, five, 10 years down the road, who knows what it’s going to be like, but right now. Yes. There are a lot of things you can do to make things better. Also where’s my free book? I didn’t get a copy. You’re in the UK. Do you not know how, like, there’s no ships with containers going across anymore.

Ed Leake: What nonsense? We’re open for business. Come over.

Frederick Vallaeys: I actually am coming to London in

Ed Leake: March.

Frederick Vallaeys: Leave at that point. But yeah, I’m going to be speaking at HeroConf London. So assuming that that happens, also, we’re going to potentially be at SMX Paris that week and doing a SMX Munich as well. So little Europe stint.

Ed Leake: Well, let’s not talk about lockdowns and all that nonsense. Yeah, I know.

Julie Friedman Bacchini: So I have a question that I don’t know if you’ve looked at the data relative to this, Fred, when you guys are looking at stuff with RSAs, but some of the stuff that’s been going on with RSAs, it’s been concurrent with the continued fuzzying of all match types for keywords.

So part of me wonders like, yes, we’re talking about like, what, what impact does RSA have when, when you’re using that and what’s, what, You know, data points that we mere advertisers don’t have access to that Google does, that they’re using to like make all of these auction time decisions on our behalf.

What role, you know, again, I think it’s, it’s pretty much a black box, so I don’t know how, you know, we would, Tease this particular piece of information out, but I do feel like the fuzzification as I like to call it of the keyword matching definitely is playing a role in all of this too. Cause even if you’re not following Google’s golden triangle recommendations and you’re not using full on broad match with the smart bidding and the RSAs you’ve got like broad match light.

No matter what keyword you know, matching you’ve, you’ve chosen for, for your terms. And so that’s a piece that’s at play here at the same time, which is kind of behind the scenes. And we’re not really factoring in necessarily, but I think it’s, it, it is playing a role in what happens with your ads as well.

Frederick Vallaeys: It’s a great point. And for those of you not completely familiar with what Julie means with broad match light exact match is no longer exact match and it becomes, it’s becoming less and less exact as time goes on. And I think that’s what you mean by broad match, right? Yes. So yeah. And the problem is it’s hard to Figure out what part of the, the incremental impressions and incremental conversions are driven by the match type versus the bid management automation versus the RSA automation, but like, listen, one is going off on a bit of a tangent, but one big point in the, in the book.

And so by the way, like the subtitle of the book. The biggest mind shift in PPC history. So what is that biggest mind shift? To me, it’s like, well, we’re so used to, we’ve been doing this for 20 years of managing keywords and search terms and specific bids and specific affects and like all these details and how they come together and these like, for this query, we want to do this for that query.

We want to do that. That’s no longer how ads are going to be managed. So to Julie’s point, it’s, it’s a black box and Google does all this stuff that we used to do for us, but the way that we can still influence it and steer the ship, if you will, is by managing at the periphery of that system. So how we tell Google what we really want, right?

We’re not writing them a blank check. We’re writing them a blank check in exchange for a conversion goal that we told them. But if we don’t correctly tell them that conversion goal, then that’s a huge miss because here, here’s an example. Like if you say I want phone calls for my business. Well, I don’t want phone calls for my business.

Nobody wants phone calls for their business. You want phone calls that turn into new customers. Right? Just having the phone ring doesn’t mean anything, but that’s how a lot of people define to Google what success means. And then you get all these automations coming together. And how do you find like the most conversions for the cheapest price?

Is by giving you the conversions that nobody else wanted to buy the phone calls. Nobody else wanted to buy the lead form fillers that nobody else wanted to buy. The clicks to your shopping site from customers who return a hundred percent of the time, most of a hundred, a hundred percent of the stuff you sent them.

Right. That’s what makes stuff cheap. And if you’re not like measuring that and reporting that back to Google. That’s a huge fail. And so what we have to think about much more is how do we steer this ship at the periphery? So how do we have a better data feed? And RSAs, I think are kind of a feed format too, because instead of writing ads now, it’s like, well, here’s my list of calls to action.

Here’s my unique value propositions. And here’s my brand headlines. That’s my feed. Here you go. Go at it. But we can still optimize how we position our brand. Like what is our unique value proposition? And how do we communicate that? Hmm. I mean, it’s

Julie Friedman Bacchini: harder, it’s harder for smaller organizations. I mean, all the stuff that you’re talking about there, Fred, it’s like, Oh yeah, that’s amazing.

Right? Like, yeah, send the value back. Do you know, figure these pieces out, make sure that you’re clear inside of your organization. What are the quality of, of leads that are coming in and, you know, trying Different values on different types of conversions. That is such a bridge too far for so many organizations.

Like this is where I think this gets really interesting. And this is sort of what happens as these, these platforms and these ecosystems evolve and mature over time. They were very. a very level playing field, and you had a lot of opportunity for organizations of all types and sizes to be able to find success.

And as happens as most platforms mature, then it becomes much more stratified. And I would argue that Google is pretty stratified at this point, as far as a lot of the things that the way that the system is built and the way that it’s clearly moving. definitely favor larger organizations you know, retail organizations.

And then you have the whole other swath where, you know, figuring out like, you know, it’s, it’s getting them to figure out like what that conversion actually is, or is there more than one type of conversion? And as a phone call more valuable than, you know, a form fill or whatever, right? Like getting them over that line.

It’s like, Oh my gosh, that was monumental. So there’s a Large amount of stratification that is happening. And I think it’s going to continue to happen as all this stuff goes forward.

Frederick Vallaeys: I mean, let me argue the opposite of that a little bit. And I’m the former Google ads evangelist, right? So I have clearly drank the Kool Aid and I need to defend, I know how to defend Google’s position on these things.

But like, from my perspective, I think today it is easier for a novice advertiser who would have tended to screw things up in the past. To not screw it up quite as badly, right? But and then at the same time, I think those mid level organizations, they just need to work a little bit harder to achieve that same level of success or a little bit more success than their competition. And that’s where I think they need us, right? They need, they can’t go at it alone necessarily. They need the expert help. And I think that’s really good for us in this field. Because as much as it’s become easier, It’s actually also become much harder because the problems we’re solving are no longer problems of like keyword selection, but like business value.

And so we become a little bit more business consultants who know how to connect those pieces back into the ad system, right? And if you explain to someone, how do you value a phone call? Well, the math is not that hard, right? Like, and you just need to look in their books a little bit to figure that out.

But then how do you communicate that back to Google? That’s hard. Luckily that’s becoming easier. So Google is working on things like gclidless conversion tracking. It’s basically the next version of enhanced conversions where you no longer need a gclid to be put into your CRM, which is really complicated, right?

But now you can just use an email address much easier.

Ed Leake: And I think it’s about time, Fred, that PPC managers, agencies, freelancers became more business savvy and people are going to hate me and I’m divisive probably saying this, but there’s your angle. There’s your edge. If you’re if you know that your clients or potential clients are struggling with this connection between Google and their data.

That should be your foot in the door. That should be not the PPC, not the ads because you know, every man and his dog does ads and SEO and so on, but to actually connect those dots for them you know, you’ll be their best friend for life because then all you got to do is turn on performance max. In fact, I’d love that.

If that was your book, Fred, it was just a completely blank pages, apart from create a performance max campaign. Done

Frederick Vallaeys: I think that’d be hilarious if people paid me money for that book. So yeah, let’s try it. I mean google does see this or at least the way they position it is it’s an additive campaign in addition to your search campaigns It’s it will replace smart shopping But it doesn’t replace anything else.

It’s additive in many ways. But yeah, we’re getting very far afield here from ads, and I think we’re basically all saying the same thing just different. There’s opportunity. There’s opportunity, I think. Okay, so let’s talk about ads. So any other tips and tricks? Ed, I think were you talking about multiple RSAs in an ad group or like how many headlines you, you should ideally have?

So

Ed Leake: Yeah, I’ve, I’ve, I know we had, it’s probably my fault. I know we had questions for this, but I don’t think we’ve followed the script at all, have we? So let me just look, I pulled some data again, just to be Fred like it’s good to be a nerd with data. So yeah, essentially what I, what I found from the data is the sweet, and it’s so difficult to give a one size fits all.

So please, if you’re watching this bit of critical thinking, but the sweet spot seems to be around six, seven headlines. Unless you can genuinely say something unique, different. But yeah, seven six or seven headlines. So essentially like I touched on earlier, it’s like combining two etas into one. Do you

Frederick Vallaeys: Like so when you say six seven, I mean, do you tend to have multiple do you kind of classify it into types of headlines?

Ed Leake: yeah, so So you’ve got probably 25 30 different types of headlines. There might be a call to action It might be a feature. It might be a benefit. It might be a location sensitive You thing. So you have to compartmentalize them into different assets for your ad. What are they? Are they mentioning price?

Are they mentioning delivery? Whatever. So obviously then you need to use a bit of common sense to say, well, I only really need one call to action. I could test two. I only need one feature benefit or I could just test features. I could just test benefits. So that’s what I meant in terms of six or seven because writing 15 ads headlines For one, essentially for one bucket of queries.

Is no mean feat to you know, write 15 good headlines not five good and then 10 shite oh, sorry you’ve only seen one so far you promised many more Bugger, I nearly made it for to an hour. But yeah, you get the point. So it’s a quality over quantity. If you try and game the system with three or four headlines, it’s very clear that that we’ve touched on that.

That doesn’t work. But six or seven seems to be at the okay range in terms of where impressions aren’t cut. But I can see Google moving the goalposts on that, unfortunately. But currently it seems to be where you’re not put in the naughty corner.

Frederick Vallaeys: Julie, what what advice do you have as far as ad variations and other tips and tricks?

Julie Friedman Bacchini: So in that presentation, I know I’m talking about this a lot, but it was very eye opening as far as, you know, what, what is Google going to be pushing on us here, right? And in 2022, they said very clearly that you should only have one RSA going forward, just to be like a single RSA in your ad groups. And I, I guess part of me can see the logic of that, right?

Like the idea is, okay, you’re going to give us all these assets and we’re going to, we’re going to figure it out and we’re going to serve the best ones and then you should just not worry about it. So like that clearly is Google’s point of view. On all of this. I think that again, you have to consider how do you want to test things inside of an RSA?

So do you want to create your, you know, six, seven, eight headlines, let’s say, let those run for a while. See what, you know, see what happens, see which ones are getting served the most, see which combinations are getting served the most, that type of thing. And then. When you want to try something different, what will your, what will your method be?

Will you add a new, you know, add a new headline? Will you create a new version of the RSA that maybe keeps the top three headlines, you know, that performed well, and then you’ll create another three or four? you have to think about what you want your, your methodology to be. Cause again, it’s different.

Like we’re ETAs. We would be like, all right, I found one that seems to really be resonating and doing well. Can I write one that’s better? But you don’t have that same, you don’t have those same capabilities in the same way inside of an RSA.

Frederick Vallaeys: I mean, totally agree with what you’re saying, but for us to do what Google wants us to do, they need to be more forthcoming, like, great that you tell me the impression data, but like, what about conversions?

What about costs? Right? Like, if that’s not in the picture, I can’t make that decision about what are my best three headlines to keep and maybe vary some of the others.

Julie Friedman Bacchini: I mean, it’s very clear that they don’t want you making those decisions, right? Like they want to make suggestions to you and they want to say, steer you very much in the direction of like, this is what we, we think you should do now.

Do I think that that’s, what’s going to be best for advertisers? No. Cause a lot of the times what Google wants you to do, you look at it, you’re like, are you joking? You know, you read the suggestions and you think like, Oh my God, this system. Really has a long way to go before I would feel confident putting that much trust into this automated system.

When I see what it’s suggesting, they did also say that they, there is going to be quote unquote, more reporting data available around RSAs. That is all that is coming at some point in 2022. Now, what that means, what that data will be. They didn’t get into any, any specifics. So. Big question, huge question mark there.

Ed Leake: It’s, I mean, to be fair, when you’re spending other people’s money, which is what Google’s doing, why they haven’t produced that before June, before the cutoff is a bit disgraceful, really. And just again, to touch on what you’re saying, Julie, with testing, I think what I prescribe in God tear out is.

A dirty AB. So essentially you run out variant tests. So one RSA and I agree with Google on that one RSA, one ETA ETA dies off anyway, typically, and then just run a, an AB because you’re forcing Google’s hand to at least At least try and deliver the impressions fairly across your rsa’s but test one thing in the rsa So I call it a dirty ab because you’re you’re testing a call to action.

For example and doing it on one ad group is probably not ideal. You want to run a theme so test the Call to action across 10 RSAs and you, the reason I don’t create a second ad in the ad group is because the experiment tool works and it gives you a, it gives you a printout of the metrics. So you do actually get to see The AB result.

And I know it’s not a true AB, but it’s still, it’s probably the safest way to do it at the minute, I’d say.

Frederick Vallaeys: So I think what we’ve seen advertisers do successfully is a variation on that. So basically think of so get rid of ETAs now run multiple RSAs in one ad group, but think of each RSA as having a theme.

Right. One may be focused on price. One may be focused on speed of delivery whatever other value benefits you have, and then don’t stick to just one headline variation that talks about that, but try three, four different variations, right? So to give Google some flexibility, but there’s a very clear theme between the two, and then you can start to see, well, does Google prefer one or the other?

And then you can start to figure out, okay, maybe this team is working better. Now let me pin. those thematic points to different positions. And now we’re on one RSA with the same, both RSAs have the same theme, but they’re pinning to different positions. And now you can start to kind of A B test that way.

And so there’s still a process that you can go through even before you get these new metrics where you can just see the end results of the whole entity as opposed to the individual components.

Ed Leake: Yeah. And Ngrams for ads. You do it. We do it. Because it makes sense. And I think Ngrams for RSAs is, is useful.

Certainly nice if Google just did it for us. But yeah, I think the thematic approach is a good idea. I think the smaller advertisers, smaller budgets struggle with that and might need the dirty AB. Yeah, there are some options available. It’s not the end of the road.

Frederick Vallaeys: So we’re coming close to time here, but there were two more things I wanted to talk about and get your take on, so add strength, whether you use that or not.

And then the asset label, which is sort of the asset strength. How do you use that if you do currently?

Ed Leake: Do

Frederick Vallaeys: you want me to go?

Julie Friedman Bacchini: Sure, go ahead.

Ed Leake: I didn’t sound very enthusiastic there, did I? So yeah, again, I was just pulling data. Don’t know if you agree, but so looking at 2019, 2020, 2021 data I don’t see any obvious correlation between top of page rate versus the ad strength.

Frederick Vallaeys: Yeah, and I agree on that. So ad strength is, and just to explain to people, ad strength is something that Google looks at based on best practices of what you submit. That ad strength will never change based on how the ad is actually doing. So there should be no correlation, right? It’s just what the machine thinks is going to happen.

It’s not what it, it never, you know, Updates its opinion.

Ed Leake: But but impression share is different. So the top of page rate doesn’t seem to flux but the The ad strength does impact impressions So you’ve got

Frederick Vallaeys: the yeah I mean, so google has a correlation study and I think they say for every point you go up in ad strength you get three percent more impressions So if you look at the lowest to the highest, it’s like 9 or 12 percent boost in impressions.

Ed Leake: Yeah, and I think it’s The whole

Frederick Vallaeys: disconnect is that, so what you need to look at is the asset labels, because those are actually based off of historical performance, but the downside on those is that you don’t really get these until you have fairly high volume ad

Ed Leake: groups. Okay. Impressions. And then they tell you an arbitrary thing.

It’s good. It’s like, okay, thanks for that. I knew it was good. How good? I just feel like we’ve got a two tier quality score system going on, even though we, it’s not about ad rank, but it is because it impacts it. So. I wish they just amalgamate the whole bloody thing and just got it over with it and just gave us an, you know, an ad score, rename quality score, whatever. And I think it’s tripping a few people up to be honest with you.

Julie Friedman Bacchini: Well, pinning comes into effect for that too. So when you pin things again, so I, I just out of my own curiosity, like I said, I I’ve been running the experiment with literally the exact same assets, but with things pinned. And then I have one that’s totally unpinned.

The unpin one has a higher. Ad strength, like right from go, because I don’t pin it. You don’t pin anything. So as soon as you pin stuff, you’re, you’re dropping your ad, you’re dropping your ad strength right from get go. And if you get it into, it doesn’t take long to get to a poor ad strength, even if you had one that was average or good before you started pinning stuff and then you get that little, what does it say?

Like You get that little eligible and then in the parenthesis limited you know, status where it’s like, well, yeah, we’ll show it, but we’re not going to show it as much as we would if you would make this better, except all they want you to do to make it better. Like you could literally do nothing other than just unpinning stuff to, to make it better.

So there, there are some areas of the system that I really hope are going to get further developed.

Frederick Vallaeys: This is probably a self reinforcing loop. On the machine learning system, right? So it’s basically looking at what you did and it knows that system wide pinning is going to hurt your performance. So it makes a prediction the moment that you pin and it says, well, you’re probably going to perform worse, but then it also says, well, I’ve got these million other advertisers for the same keywords and they didn’t pin.

So I’m going to give them preference because the prediction is they’re going to do better. And so then the question is how flexible is Google at. allowing some variation from the established best practice so that the system can learn maybe, hey, maybe things have changed, right? Maybe pinning is okay in certain situations, but I think that’s where we’re finding just a prediction mechanism that has made some Large decisions that it’s not willing to change anymore.

Ed Leake: And if you’re on a mid or large size account, you can’t ignore this because it’s your, you’re going to lose volume. So you’re going to lose auctions if you don’t comply, essentially. So if you’re a volume play you know, if you’re an insurance where you just want volume. You, you can’t overly pick, you have got to reference this arbitrary score, throw spaghetti at it, and it patronizingly tells you, you’ve created a great ad, and it’s like, well, I didn’t really do much to create that great ad.

It needs, it needs some tinkering, and it needs some, some work, certainly, and ML is all about iteration and it will, fingers crossed, improve. Will it? I

Julie Friedman Bacchini: was gonna say, it’s interesting looking at what it chooses to put together for you too. You can see, you can see the Combinations that got the most, you know, like it’s in descending order.

So the combinations that got the most impressions I find that really interesting to look at that’s giving you an insight into, obviously it’s showing the ones most frequently that it thinks will be most successful. So I also think that that’s an interesting. little area to keep your, keep your eye on too, so that, you know, you get a little bit more insight into, cause it’s one thing again, we’re used to looking at ads as a whole for ETAs, right?

And you know, exactly what was in the ad. And then you can see what happened, like what was the percentage that it was served and all of the stats for that. But with the RSAs, you don’t, you don’t see those stats in the same way. So I find looking at that data where it shows you the combinations. give you some insight to into for each particular client and each particular thing that you’re trying to advertise for like, what does Google think are the most important aspects, right?

And, and you’ll, you’ll see. And again, when you look in there, it’s really interesting because again, they favor Certain combinations a lot more than others. So I think that’s really interesting to look at and start to sort of digest as well. When you’re thinking about what you want to create and what kind of things you, you might want to, you might want to test.

Cause you’ll find assets that they never pick ever. So, you know, you can look in there and see that and be like, well, this, This headline in here is doing nothing for me, or they never serve this particular description. You might as well put something else in, in its place, right? Cause those, those assets that are sitting in there, never getting served or doing nothing for you.

So I think that’s an interesting place to kind of, we as humans, right? We’re talking about how, how to still have, you know, where do we have value in the system where everything is automated to a certain degree? I think looking at, at, at that particular set of data. Let’s your human brain think about some things that like the machine can’t, can’t think about as well.

I

Frederick Vallaeys: love that. Great advice. I mean, I think let’s wrap up on that great advice. I’m going

Ed Leake: to just say one thing. Do you know the frustrating thing about what looking at the combinations, seeing that one headline isn’t getting any impressions, then removing it from the RSA and your ad score dropping saying, Oh, your ad’s rubbish now.

It’s like, Oh, you.

Julie Friedman Bacchini: Right.

Ed Leake: Really?

Julie Friedman Bacchini: Really?

Frederick Vallaeys: I think this is really important for people to understand. And the ad relevance score. Is a prediction. It has nothing to do with your performance and the asset labels are based on your performance, two completely separate systems. So they don’t talk to each other and they’re going to tell you stupid stuff.

Like I’m just going to that good point. Hey, well, this has been a great conversation. I feel like we need to do another one as a, this topic evolves and as more metrics hopefully become available. Final wrap up, any things that we didn’t cover or just tell us where we can find you remind us. Let’s start with ladies first, Julie.

Julie Friedman Bacchini: Yeah. I mean, this is definitely a topic that we’re going to be talking about, I think all through 2022. So I’d be happy to talk about it again, anytime. As for where you can find me, I’m really active on Twitter. So that’s the best place to find me. My Twitter handle is at Neptune moon. I am always active on the PPC chat hashtag.

So you can find me on either of those places and I’d encourage you to check out. We have a ton of resources and. Links to past chats and that type of thing on the PPC chat website as well, which you can find@officialppcchat.com.

Frederick Vallaeys: Right, ed, I know your dinner’s getting cold, so wrap it up for, it’s in dog

Ed Leake: Now, me I, I’ve gotta reel off a load of websites, so I won’t bother.

I’m not very active on social media, but if you really wanna find me, go to ed leak.com. It’s a rubbish website, but you can get, you can find your way to my other stuff from there. That’s it really. I mean, I don’t have a lot more to add. I won’t get another invite.

Frederick Vallaeys: Julie, should we invite him again?

Julie Friedman Bacchini: Yeah, I think so.

Frederick Vallaeys: Yeah, let’s go. Thanks. All right, but only if you meet me in london Hey, I want a

Ed Leake: copy of that book.

Frederick Vallaeys: Did you say two books? I got two books. You still didn’t get the first one I was like back in 2019 Anyway, but thanks for bringing up the book. So folks my level of playing field. It’s on amazon.

Where’d you find the time?

You know i’m efficient I guess Well, I hope the book is good. Like we we did a couple of iterations of I wasn’t very happy with the book first one I wrote. So I kind of went back and made it, I think, really good. It talks a little bit, I mean, it’s really about This evolving nature of automation and PPC and how we deal with it RSAs is one great example So anyway, thank you both for being on.

Julie, I think we’re going to hang out in Austin at HeroCon No, i’m not going to be there Okay, well then i’m not being Austin. I’m not hanging out with anyone. Sorry Be lonely for another year. Sorry. It’s a bummer. It’s a bummer. Okay. Well, anyway, it’s been a pleasure having both of you on. Folks, if you enjoyed this episode, you want to see more of them, we’re doing them about twice a month.

Subscribe on the YouTube channel. That way you’ll find out. And if you have any questions for me or Optmyzr, I’m @siliconvallaeys on Twitter. And you can always find me at Optmyzr. com. So thanks so much for watching. See you for the next one.